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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Man it never stops. Drove my tracker to a friends house today and after leaving it running in his driveway for a min it stopped. I tried to restart it and it it wouldn't turn over. Turns out the FI fuse blew. I replaced it and it blew immediately. My buddy helped me diagnose ( Very accomished mechanic) and we had no spark whatsoever. We pulled the main relay which was warm. I believe we discovered that the injector wire harness has a short but I think that means that the ECU is toast. Below is the relay we pulled that stopped the fuses from popping.

So just to recap, FI Fuse pops immediately, doesn't start at all, no spark, we narrowed it down to injector harness. And yes any advice.



Any advice?
 

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Probably with some difficulty, frankly. For some reason, even the gusy on ebay who do the core returns are not handling the 95 ECU's for some reason. However, if you pull the ECU, you should be able to see if anything is fried or leaking in it - presumably you have already changed the caps in your ECU?? Many of the components, caps, drivers, etc., can be individually replaced - if there is damage on your board, upload a photo of it, and Rhino can probably help you with it. However, there is no reason (yet) to assume the ECU is 'fried'. You need to find your short. While it is unlikely that the main relay has anything to do with your problem, you can try to plug the fuel pump relay (the green one next to the main relay) into the main relay socket - they are interchangeable. Presumably the f1 fuse will continue to blow at key on, though. You need to follow the wiring - there have been many threads on the forum about this problem, if you search for them.
 

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That is one excellent diagram.....
 

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Not sure where I found this as I've had it for some time, all I did was join the two pages to make one diagram and turn it 90 degrees.
I've just has a look though some files and J benoit "aka Warbird" is the chap who did a really detailed write-up on converting a Samurai wiring loom to fit a 16v sidekick/vitara engine.
 

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Out comes the "NON DESTRUCTIVE TONE GENERATOR" and connect to the system side of the burned fuse.. follow the tone, no need to panic and open harness...

... Philip
 

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Out comes the "NON DESTRUCTIVE TONE GENERATOR" and connect to the system side of the burned fuse.. follow the tone, no need to panic and open harness...

... Philip
x2. This is certainly the easy way to do it.

Regarding J Benoit, I have found 3 of his ECU diagrams on the internet, one for OBD1 TBI, OBD1 MPI and OBD2. I'll upload them to a new thread - maybe it would be a good idea to make them into a sticky. Kudos to this guy, whoever he is - they are truly incredibly excellent....
 

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First: Can you confirm what you are actually driving. Your title says 1996, your signature says 1995. Which is it??
Second: How have you determined that this is an ECU, rather than a wiring problem. What tests have you run? The blue/black wire that feeds the F1 circuit runs throughout the car. As wiring is now an issue with these older cars, logic would dictate that the wiring needs to be checked first, rather than assuming that the ECU has some kind of short in it - normally the ECU does not present this type of problem.
Aqua has advise you of how to test this system with a tone generator (and not expensive to buy). If you prefer to do this old school, use a light wired into the F1 fuse socket (rather than going through a box of fuses). With the key on, light will be bright, as you have a short somewhere. Then begin to disconnect all the connectors that run off of this circuit. When the light dims, you have found the circuit where your short is located.
That blue/black wire runs through the main relay, to the idle speed solenoid, The EGR and EVAP vsv's, the torque converter relay, the distributor, the fuel pump relay, etc. The ECU is only providing a ground to these circuits.
With the light in place of the fuse, you won't keep blowing fuses and will be able to disconnect each circuit, one at a time, until the brightness of the light changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
First: Can you confirm what you are actually driving. Your title says 1996, your signature says 1995. Which is it??
Second: How have you determined that this is an ECU, rather than a wiring problem. What tests have you run? The blue/black wire that feeds the F1 circuit runs throughout the car. As wiring is now an issue with these older cars, logic would dictate that the wiring needs to be checked first, rather than assuming that the ECU has some kind of short in it - normally the ECU does not present this type of problem.
Aqua has advise you of how to test this system with a tone generator (and not expensive to buy). If you prefer to do this old school, use a light wired into the F1 fuse socket (rather than going through a box of fuses). With the key on, light will be bright, as you have a short somewhere. Then begin to disconnect all the connectors that run off of this circuit. When the light dims, you have found the circuit where your short is located.
That blue/black wire runs through the main relay, to the idle speed solenoid, The EGR and EVAP vsv's, the torque converter relay, the distributor, the fuel pump relay, etc. The ECU is only providing a ground to these circuits.
With the light in place of the fuse, you won't keep blowing fuses and will be able to disconnect each circuit, one at a time, until the brightness of the light changes.
1. Typo, it is a 1995 for certain.
2cnbj1865s6936562

2 CANADIAN BUILT 1
C CAMI/GM OF CANADA/SUZUKI J.V. 2
N CHEV MPV 3
B GVWR RANGE 3001-4000 BRAKE SYSTEM - HYD 4
J COMPACT CAB 4 X 4 5
1 1/2 TON 6
8 TWO-DOOR UTILITY 7
6 ENG OPT - L01 DISPL(L) - 1.6 CYL - L4 FUEL SYS - MFI PROD IN - JAPAN 8
5 CHECK DIGIT 9
S 1995 MODEL YEAR 10
6 INGERSOLL ON 11
6 OKLAHOMA CITY OK 11


2. Thank you so much for the informed post. My mechanic disconnected the swingeing harness for the injectors and then put the fuse back into FI with no pop, hooked it back up POP. We went through a box of fuses ;). After a lot of reading it seems that we toasted the ECU. But I will forward him your post and see if there is something else I am missing.


P.S. besides sending my ECU out for repair, what ECU can I run? It's OBDI 3 Speed Auto 4X4 but 16V so is it a very specific ECU? I am looking for a hot swap now and then I'll repair my broken one and keep as a spare that seems to be the best option for me ATM.

Thanks
 

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Presumably you're mechanic works with diagnostic testing, rather than a 'looks like' scenario. If not, find another one. There is no need to go through a box of fuses, if you use a light in place of the fuse. If your mechanic doesn't know how to do this, find another one. And 'looks like' is not the way to diagnose an ECU - note that most of the core return sites on ebay no longer deal in the 95 ECU, so it is in your best interest to see if there is actually damage to yours. The simplest way is to pull it from the car, and look for damage. However, it appears that no one is actually going through your harness to look for the short - whether you have incurred further damage by fiddling around in such a way, I can't tell, but your initial problem was with wiring or a connection, and you have not found that problem yet. So, even if you do manage to get another ECU, when you plug it in...boom, off goes the F1 fuse again. You MUST find the short or the problem circuit before you go any further. It's really that simple.

Edit: Note that there is a similar thread currently going on here - as with this thread, you MUST look for the wiring problem before going any further with 'replacement' items:
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-tracker/165465-more-fi-fuse-goodness.html
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Presumably you're mechanic works with diagnostic testing, rather than a 'looks like' scenario. If not, find another one. There is no need to go through a box of fuses, if you use a light in place of the fuse. If your mechanic doesn't know how to do this, find another one. And 'looks like' is not the way to diagnose an ECU - note that most of the core return sites on ebay no longer deal in the 95 ECU, so it is in your best interest to see if there is actually damage to yours. The simplest way is to pull it from the car, and look for damage. However, it appears that no one is actually going through your harness to look for the short - whether you have incurred further damage by fiddling around in such a way, I can't tell, but your initial problem was with wiring or a connection, and you have not found that problem yet. So, even if you do manage to get another ECU, when you plug it in...boom, off goes the F1 fuse again. You MUST find the short or the problem circuit before you go any further. It's really that simple.

Edit: Note that there is a similar thread currently going on here - as with this thread, you MUST look for the wiring problem before going any further with 'replacement' items:
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-tracker/165465-more-fi-fuse-goodness.html
The reason we did go through all those fuses was because it was 10PM, I just dropped my Waverunner off for repairs (the Intercooler rotted and was pissing water into the intake) and my truck literally just died. I had the fuses and we went for it to see if the short was obvious so I could get home.

He found the short already, we just need the ECU. It was in the wore loom near the fire wall.
 

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What circuit was the short in, wire colors, etc.? You should upload a photo of the ECU circuit board, showing the damage.
 

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Would perhaps be more helpful (to you) to post a photo of the damage to the ECU. You may find it somewhat difficult to find a replacement for the 1995 - at least as far as I know, many of the ebay suppliers no longer work on the 1995 ECU, for some reason. If you can find one in a junkyard, you may be lucky, but you will need the same model number as what you currently have. Otherwise, I think that Cardone or similar sells replacements, but rather expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
*************UPDATE**************


I'm completely lost. The stupid thing wouldn't start after replacing the ECU ($50 for the thing, I'm keeping it as a spare). It would blow the fuses left and right and after a month f sitting I just decided to try starting it again, if anything just to check the battery and the fucker started right up. I let it run for 30 mins and even jiggled what I could jiggle in the wire loom to get it to stall, nothing. Dove it home, about 10 miles, never stalled. Started every time since?

These handing relays pictured below do get quite warm.

Is that OK?





Regards
 
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