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Discussion Starter #1
I have rebuilt total brake system except for master and the weird valve thingies at the rear you can't get parts for. Front got new rotors and pads and I rebuilt the calipers and guides. Rears got shoes and slaves.
Master working fine with no leaks. Pedal is high and fine, and power booster is working at some level as when you start car with foot on brake pedal will fall after motor starts.
All that said, brake pedal effort is high and even standing on pedal can not lock a wheel. Tires are oversize 235-75 R15 bfg all terrain. Car is too light and rotors too big to stop this poorly. Was always this way. Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions?
Throwing parts at it doesn't make sense as seem all is working...
Thanks!
Doug

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Have you considered the impact that that the size & more importantly the weight of the tire has on the situation? Many people do not recognize that the larger tires weigh quite a bit more and the added weight is concentrated on the outer edge of the assembled wheel.

If your Tracker is a two door, I believe a common upgrade is to fit the brakes from the four door
 
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I have rebuilt total brake system except for master and the weird valve thingies at the rear you can't get parts for. Front got new rotors and pads and I rebuilt the calipers and guides. Rears got shoes and slaves.
Master working fine with no leaks. Pedal is high and fine, and power booster is working at some level as when you start car with foot on brake pedal will fall after motor starts.
All that said, brake pedal effort is high and even standing on pedal can not lock a wheel. Tires are oversize 235-75 R15 bfg all terrain. Car is too light and rotors too big to stop this poorly. Was always this way. Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions?
Throwing parts at it doesn't make sense as seem all is working...
Thanks!
Doug

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Interesting.... my '91 Tracker is also fitted with 235/75-15 tires, recently installed to replace the worn GY Wrangler 235's that PO ran for over 6 years. Replaced the front pads few months ago, orig. rotors (just de-glazed the surfaces) and getting close to replacing rear shoes. My Tracker brakes pretty similar to what you describe, but comparing it to my 2000 Tacoma 4WD, it will brake to a stop in almost same distance from 65 mph. I've never felt that the pedal effort was unusually high. It's sort of hard to lock up the brakes with that much rubber on dry pavement with a light vehicle. As you mention, these rotors are surely adequate for normal operation on this vehicle. If you were doing a lot of mountain grades, high speed "driving" or towing, I could see brake fade becoming an issue, but otherwise......????
First thing I thought of was, a vacuum leak in your master cyl. booster, but seems it's working ok.
 

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I think that Fordem has nailed it. I have similar issues since I went with the 235/75/15. Although the car looks great with the beefier tires, those tires have impacted acceleration, braking and cornering in a negative way.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
When fitting brakes from a four door, do you need the spindles as well?

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When fitting brakes from a four door, do you need the spindles as well?

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No, but you may have to trim the backing plate for the larger size caliper and brackets.
 

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I haven't done it myself, but as far as I know, you need the pads, calipers, caliper mounts and the disks.

Have a look at the discussion below...

Front Brake upgrade

A google search on sidekick brake upgrade or vitara brake upgrade will get you more reading material.
 

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maybe it's my motorcycle racing background, but i always search for interesting compounds that might offer higher coefficient of friction for the same caliper application.
this company offers two, one of them "street agresive version" , was really considering trying it for next pads change.

there might be other options, first check which pads your car uses, ferodo lists two designs
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Good info. I use Black Magic brakes on my Jeep and it was a big improvement over other pads. As my rotors are new swapping pads would be cheapest first step.
Thanks,
Doug

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I have performed this conversion 3 times, and as fordem says, "I haven't done it myself, but as far as I know, you need the pads, calipers, caliper mounts and the disks.", these are the 4 door parts you'll need.
 

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You don't want compounds that are the "perfect replacement for a daily driven race car", I'm inclined to say you don't want any compound that includes the word race in the description - race pads don't work well until they have warmed up, I don't see you getting them up to temp on the street.

I'm running EBC GreenStuff on a GV, and I am NOT impressed - the previous pads were OEM Suzuki, they worked well, couldn't ask for more stopping power, even running larger rubber than stock - I had just one problem with them, submerge them and the stopping power vanished, I mean absolutely disappeared. I special ordered the EBC out of the UK, the car stops well, even after a water crossing, but it takes a lot more pedal effort to pull it up now.

I have performed this conversion 3 times.
What's the improvement in brake performance like?

One of the reasons behind the question is I recently took delivery of a new Jimny, it's on OEM rims & HT (195/80R15) tires at the moment, but, I'm looking ahead to when I swap the rubber out for something, at the very least wider, if not wider & taller, in an AT pattern - I expect it to have a negative impact on braking (I've been down this road before with other cars), and this Jimny takes what is almost exactly the same disks & calipers as the Sidekick, so the same upgrade can supposedly be done.
 

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"What's the improvement in brake performance like?"

A taste better, but nowhere near the expected, anticipated, or optimal.
 

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playing a bit with cross references brought this, turns out jimny calipers have 51mm pistons vs. 48mm in sidekicks... equals 12% more stopping power....
99843
 

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What model Jimny?
 

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written in the link, scroll down a bit
 

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I have rebuilt total brake system except for master and the weird valve thingies at the rear you can't get parts for. Front got new rotors and pads and I rebuilt the calipers and guides. Rears got shoes and slaves.
Master working fine with no leaks. Pedal is high and fine, and power booster is working at some level as when you start car with foot on brake pedal will fall after motor starts.
All that said, brake pedal effort is high and even standing on pedal can not lock a wheel. Tires are oversize 235-75 R15 bfg all terrain. Car is too light and rotors too big to stop this poorly. Was always this way. Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions?
Throwing parts at it doesn't make sense as seem all is working...
Thanks!
Doug

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
How hard do you need to step on the brakes?
If the brake pedal is really hard then the booster ain't working properly.
Maybe the rear drum brakes aren't adjusted properly too, so only the front wheels are actually doing the braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Booster is working. Pedal is high and hard engine off and will drop about an inch when engine is started. Rears are adjusted and working and we're rebuilt at same time as front. Always the first thing I do when I pick up an older car - total brake rebuild. I think the caliper is just a bit undersized with my tires and I'm picky about brakes. More IS better...

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While I do agree that the larger tire will impact the braking - as I have a similar situation in my car - certainly “standing“ on the brake pedal should lock the brakes - my brakes will lock, although more force is needed than when I was riding with stock, or only slightly larger, tires. When replacing my brakes recently, my situation arose when I also replaced the master cylinder with an aftermarket one, that was not set up properly to the factory booster. But you advise that you have not replaced that circuit at all. As the brake circuit is a dual one, front and back, you’re advising that neither circuit will lock??
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Rear will lightly lock and fronts are just a hard bite but don't lock. It stops pretty well but there have been a couple of times I would have been happier with more aggressive braking. More is possible before getting to full lock and uncontrolled slide and that is what I am looking for. I am currently running centric ceramic pads which on other vehicles have been slightly better than stock pads but not by a large amount.

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