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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Recently installed "low mileage" motor into 95 obd1 Cali emissions sidekick. All new: seals, plugs, waterpump, tstat, tbelt, tensioner, long tube headers, 02 sensor, belts, all hoses, distributor cap and rotor, wires, exhaust manifold gasket, and flange gasket. No junk parts used. Denso, Gates, or Bosch when neither of the above were available. New trans filter and fluid as well.

Initially I had some issue getting the headers to seal, a light coating of hitemp ultra copper on each side of the gasket and a mild correction of warping fixed the leak.

Set the ignition timing between 5-8 degrees, even with timing locked there is a minor bounce with a cheaper light. 8 was what they went to in 96. 5 is for 95. I put it at five with the occasional bounce to 678.

My exhaust is 2.25 piping to a highflow cat then to a magnaflow muffler.Under load I'm getting some noise from under the Hood/floor which sounds almost like BBs in a can. Lifters are set to spec. No exhaust leak before cat for sure. I doubt anywhere as the guy who made it does very good work.

Any ideas?

It almost sounds like a dead/dying cat. Which, while newer, this cat did experience the last 30k miles of the dying motor that was in here. It had a dead cylinder with low psi and saw a little smoke as well.

With the sound deadening and carpet gone for monstaliner, all noises are tough to pinpoint under load.

If the cat, and I gut this one, will the ECU throw an egr code for being too free flowing?I've put 5-600 miles on it since install and just giving it a few revs recently I noticed this. Want to lock it down so I can drive it like normal.
 

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The cat situation is an interesting one, and while there has been much discussion about the 'backpressure' needed etc., by other posters, and myself included, Rhino's post here (#4) is an interesting one, and probably good info, as his forte is ECU's
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-sidekick-escudo-vitara-geo-tracker/75489-probably-old-news.html
Don't know about the BB's, other than it is usually best to attempt to isolate where the noise is coming from - if the car is in neutral and your rev it, do you get the noise, or is it only in gear? And does the noise go to the rhythm of the engine, or just random?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll double check, but if memory serves correctly it makes a quieter version while free revving. But even using a hose to the ear, I can't pinpoint the sound. Can't get to the CAT to listen while free revving.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that's what it is.

Before replacing the entire exhaust a few years ago, I had what I believe to be the same rattle that everyone attributed to valve chatter. Turned out to be a failed catalytic convertor.

I will replace the cat, but I'll gut it first and see. Given the amount of oil which passed through it, I doubt its working anyways. Being that I'm obd1...my zuke doesn't even get inspected when I bring it for inspection. The guy scrapes the old one off, puts the new one on, and that's the extent of it. Didn't want to gut it, then have to wait two weeks for a new cat to arrive though.

Seems to me a header, 2.25 piping, and magnaflow would already reduce backpressure so much over stock that the EGR failure due to BP would be a myth.

Thanks Bex
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Code 51 tonight on the way home.

I haven't gutted the cat yet.

Seems I'm Cali emissions and the egr is crap.

Cali emissions I believe has a thermo probe plugged on the egr...weird thing is, I don't remember seeing one.

Mileage this thank was 20 MPG after adjusting for tire size. So something is going on somewhere. The old motor got 22-24 until the cylinder died. And I wasn't running any fancy 0w40 oil loaded with molybdenum either.

Any ideas on how to hunt this thing down? I seem to have tweaked my back picking up a damned half pound clamp off the floor... so as soon as that's right, I'm gonna climb up there and check to see if there is a wire coming off the egr.
 

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All Trackicks, whether federal or CA, have the thermoprobe from 1994 on. Prior to that, it was unlikely that any car would throw the code 51, as it was not connected to the ECU. In any event, considering your drop in mileage, personally (and as usual) I would first confirm your timing (compression test) before starting to rip things apart looking for possible causes. With regard to the noise that you are getting, normally you can tell the difference if the noise is going in time to the rev of the engine, tires, etc., or just vibration, which can give you a clue as to where to start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry Bex, meant to add:

At low rpm, I don't hear anything.

Free revving....nothing.

If driving along at 3k rpm...I hear it.

If I let off the gas and coast...nothing.

If I bring the rpms up to just under maintaining speed....nothing.

Only under load.

I just redid the timing belt and waterpump because I didn't like the new mitsuboshi that was installed before I bought the motor. The timing is correct. Just checked all of the valves because I didn't like the crap ton of rtv that was used in addition to the gasket.... one was a little off, but good to go now.



Feels like a cat, but I'm concerned that if I gut" ironically the egr wont work lol
 

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When you did the timing belt did you also check the torque on the crankshaft bolt? Or was it removed during the process?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
New seals down there, bolt was locktited, checked torque anyways when I did the new belt. At 100ft lbs it didn't budge.

All that is good.

With a hose all around the header flange...I can't hear any escaping air...but under a load it sounds like a leak almost.

A better example...if you've ever driven an old carbed V8 that's never seen a TuneUp, that slightly ticking sound that it makes under full load is what this sound sounds like.

A tick, 4-7x a second...but only under load.
 

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A better example...if you've ever driven an old carbed V8 that's never seen a TuneUp, that slightly ticking sound that it makes under full load is what this sound sounds like.

A tick, 4-7x a second...but only under load.
Like a spark knock? Timing? Fuel?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
That's what I'm trying to pinpoint. With the sound deadener gone in the cab...every sound coming from the engine bay or under the car sounds different than it normally would.

Although you are making me wonder. I bought an el cheapo timing light from Oreilly to set my ignition timing...I wonder if it was off slightly. I've seen it happen before, and probably will see it more often with the made in PROC crap we get these days.

Wonder if the ignition timing is actually off a few degrees. Might make sense.

Don't suppose there is any way to time it to exactly 8 degrees without a light?

I'll bring this one back and grab another.



EDIT: Spent the last half an hour listening to rocker arm ticking videos on youtube...

The closest approximation of the sound is indeed this:

http://youtu.be/1jX3haQl3o0

Sounds like rocker tick. Idk how. I'm gonna pull the cover off again and see if there is any odd wear on any cam lobes. Something I hope I DON'T find...but Kind of suspect that I might.
 

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I must be deaf, as in listening to this video, I heard nothing out of the ordinary. In any event, next question would be have you ever checked your valve lash.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Bex if you listen when he accelerates hard approaching the stop sign, you can hear the slight tapping/ticking that I'm talking about.

I just set the valves when I removed the tube of rtv and gasket that was stuck on there. All set to spec.

I'm thinking either an arm is slightly worn, has some varnish that affected the lash a little. Or the cam has a flat spot somewhere.

I'll check and see this evening.

Still curious about the timing light however. That's happened once before in the past with a bike...never had it happen with a car, same thing could happen though.



EDIT: I did switch to mobil1 OW40 in the hopes that it was simply an oil issue. It didn't have any real effect on the noise level. If I could safely run the oil for a few thousand miles, and the noise got worse...they would point to varnish on the top end disappearing and valve lash effectively widening because of it. If it didn't... then it didn't. 0w40 Mobil1 is about the most perfect oil ever for these motors...provided you have no leaks. All new seals...so figured why not.
 

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I think that if the timing is way off, you will hear more of a ping or knock, rather than a 'tick'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'll try to get a video/audio of the sound when I leave today. Problem is the cab isn't exactly quiet....
 

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Just my $.02, but I've tuned several engines with standalone fuel systems, etc... And while i did not listen to your audio clip, "BB's in a can" is always used to describe detonation or knock, and more so heard under load and not free revving etc...
Which is everything you describe.
I would double check my timing and make sure you are getting proper fuel flow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
 

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I never saw that tach go above 1500 rpm.

IF there is a question of spark knock it might be quicker & easier to just add some HI-Test Fuel?

Does it diesel at all when shutting it off?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I actually brake torqued it to put it under load. Had to keep the rpm low otherwise the exhaust drowns out any sound.

No dieseling at all. No odd temps. Gets up to operating temp. Temps feel even between the exhaust ports. Everything seems fine.

Just bought another timing light to check ignition timing. Resetting the egr code. And checking the egr thermo probe right now.

Guess ill know something in a few minutes.

Hope so at least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I can confirm due to an aching hand that two spark plug wires were arching at the distributor.

Guess ill see.
 

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I can confirm due to an aching hand that two spark plug wires were arching at the distributor.

Guess ill see.
That is one way to find them.

Let me guess brand new wires?
 
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