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Old 09-14-2018, 11:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Starting and stalling issues

I bought a 2007 Suzuki SX4 AWD with 120,000 miles. This vehicle was sitting for over a year with a blown head gasket. I took the head off and got it machined and cleaned up, installed a new head gasket and got it all back together with some new parts. I attached a hose to the fuel line and hotwired the fuel pump and pumped all the old gas out into some cans. Filled with fresh gas.

I cranked it and could hear a cylinder fire every once in a while. After a couple tries it sounded like it wanted to start but then immediately stalled. I tried again but I used the gas pedal when it seemed like it wanted to start and it slowly fired up. I let go of the gas at 3000RPM and it stalled. I tried it again with the gas pedal, it started real rough like before but once it got running it sounded great but I had to stay on the gas or it would stall. It won't start or stay running without constantly giving it gas. It sounds like a completely normal engine when running. There's no misfiring or weird sounds nothing. I sat in there for a good 15 minutes running it between 1000-1500RPM while testing the air conditioning and heat. It all works fine but as soon as I let off the gas it died again. If I slowly let it below 1000RPM it starts stuttering and anything above that and it runs normally. I didn't attempt to drive it.

I don't think it's the fuel pump because there was no noticeable lack of fuel at or above 1000RPM and it pumped all the old gas out no problem.

I don't think think it's a ignition issue because it runs perfectly normal after startup with new spark plugs.

I suspect it's an airflow issue. This vehicle is not equipped with an idler control valve, at least not one I can find anyway. I believe it uses the throttle body to control idle air. Which I've cleaned a little oil residue out of where I can reach.

I rechecked the vacuum hoses and can't find any obvious leaks. No check engine light or codes. I'm not really sure how to proceed with diagnosing this. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

-Josh
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Old 09-15-2018, 10:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Live data scanner! See what is amiss..

Philip
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Old 09-15-2018, 02:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well I made some good progress. I slowly got it fired up and then after it warmed up to operating temperature, I noticed one of the O2 sensors was flatlined at .4 volts. When I checked that O2 sensor yesterday it was reading properly. Anyways, I think that's irrelevant to this problem. I let my foot off the gas and it dropped to 500RPM and it started stuttering and shaking but instead of stalling like yesterday it actually stabilized the idle after a while! When it idles under 1000RPM the engine starts shaking a bit. Now I could check the engine while it's running. I heard what very unfortunately sounds like a timing chain sliding on aluminum about every other second.

I followed the factory service manual precisely when I put the timing components and chain all back together. I torqed everything down properly and got the timing chains on their marks exactly where they were supposed to be. Changed the tensioner gasket. When I was done, I even turned the crankshaft a couple rotations by hand to verify the chain didn't jump teeth. It seems like the timing chain itself is bad or the chain tensioners aren't getting oil pressure. I really don't want to take this timing cover back off but I'm afraid I have no choice. The last thing I want to do is take that head off again because the valves get mashed. It drives great though!
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Old 09-15-2018, 03:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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you did replace the tensioner and the gasket (some have them, some don't)? and made sure they oil passages were clear? its also very easy to get a "slipper" foot not quite square so the chain will ride on the guide edge, not the plastic surface. I suspect you might be taking the cover off and checking before you do damage just in case.
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Old 09-15-2018, 06:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Did your new tensioners come with grenade pins and if yes, did you pull them?

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Old 09-15-2018, 06:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I reused the old tensioners. Only one tensioner needed a gasket which I replaced with a new one. The other one is spring loaded. Yes, I used carb cleaner to clean out the oil passage. I'm going to take the timing cover off again tomorrow morning and see what's going on. and yes, I did pull my tiny allen wrench grenade pins :~D
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
I reused the old tensioners. Only one tensioner needed a gasket which I replaced with a new one. The other one is spring loaded. Yes, I used carb cleaner to clean out the oil passage. I'm going to take the timing cover off again tomorrow morning and see what's going on. and yes, I did pull my tiny allen wrench grenade pins :~D
theres your problem.....NEVER reuse old oil pressure driven tensioners, thats asking for trouble I don't reuse any tensioner on a chain system, too dangerous and hard to get to.
1, people compress them to put the pins in to reset them forgetting to release the non return ratchet, and kill the internal teeth and 2 they never have enough non return pressure behind them because they have been hammered to hell by the old stretched chain and the non return teeth will be rounded and won't grip in the spot the new chain will be sitting at. Oil pressure is just to push the tensioner past the next "tooth" so it takes up wear, engine oil pressure won't keep the chain tight on its own.

time for new tensioners.

As a rule of thumb, old tensioners on a new chain = about 10% of expected chain life if you are lucky. usually less. On a belt drive, you can get away with re-using, but they are a different system and have a big ass spring and grease in them, grease being not very compressible works well as a non-return agent and as the belts have "give " in them they tension differently.

its noticeable on some vehicles they will be fine, then for a couple of mornings they will "rattle" on start, then a few days later all is quiet again. This is the tensioner not quite making it to the next tooth and when the car starts the chain is loose until pressure rises to hold tension on the chain, as it stretches, it makes it over the next non return tooth and everything stays tight when theres no oil pressure. My 2015 has done this twice that I have noticed in 25,000 kms, about 10,000 kms apart.
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2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."

Last edited by 2013GV; 09-15-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Ah I see, that all makes sense and I understand this much better now. Thank you for explaining that. I just bought a timing kit that has all the tensioners, guides, sprockets, and chains. I'm going to replace all of them.
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I am concerned with the O2 stuck in lean mode, check the fuel trims..

Philip
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquanaut20 View Post
I am concerned with the O2 stuck in lean mode, check the fuel trims..

Philip
My timing kit comes this Saturday so I'll revisit that issue after I get those parts in the car. This is a project car for me and so there's no reason to be driving it in the time bomb state it's in now. If I can get it running good I'll sell my Audi and make this my daily driver.
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