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Old 07-31-2019, 03:47 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busbreath View Post
No problem with the master cyl. I just pressed brake pedal part way down and blocked it so an open line can't drain the reservoir. The Piston blocks the path so no master bleeding is required.

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what you have done can also jam one piston in the master cylinder. These have 2 separate pistons, one for each 1/2 of the braking circuit.
The Lines will still bleed and drain fluid from the tank as the return valve in the master cylinder will allow fluid to flow into the brake circuit, but not from the circuit to the master cylinder when the pedal is pressed, this is how its designed to work so additional fluid is added to compensate for pad wear withouit the pedal sinking over time.
Fluid can still flow from reservoir into brake circuit if pressure in circuit is lower than the head pressure in the reservoir, such as opening a bleed nipple.
What you have done is pointless and could have actually caused one half of the master cylinder to jam reducing braking to minimal effect and a hard pedal

Bleed all 4 corners using the "press and hold, open nipple till pedal sinks, close nipple, release" method and see if it comes right, (2 people required) I suspect the front section of the master cylinder is stuck and bleeding will solve the issue. When you crack a bleed nipple on the affected section you may hear a "click" as the piston returns to its correct position.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bex View Post
You seem to indicate that you just bled the front brakes? Is that correct? Normally they are bled from the rear, starting at the left rear. What braking system do you have - the RWAL or LSPV??
The Ďvibrationí you talk about - itís something that you hear, but not feel? Are you sure that itís not a slight exhaust obstruction that would make a noise at a specific RPM in all gears due to the backpressure?
Bex,
I believe the vibration is driveline related as it is speed related, not RPM related. I only get the drive line vibration at 45mph range and it does not change with engine rpm (same in 3rd, 4th, 5th gears). I think it has to be the play at the slip yoke as 1mm movement is quite a bit for a driveshaft - especially with the gearing on these cars...
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:39 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Bex,
I believe the vibration is driveline related as it is speed related, not RPM related. I only get the drive line vibration at 45mph range and it does not change with engine rpm (same in 3rd, 4th, 5th gears). I think it has to be the play at the slip yoke as 1mm movement is quite a bit for a driveshaft - especially with the gearing on these cars...
I'd check rear tyre balance also, that can cause what feels like a driveline vibration as well. Even tho wheel weights are there, tyres do change weight balance over time. People often don't balance the rears properly either.

Quick way to prove it, swap fronts and rears same side and see if it goes away.

I agree, doing the rear output bearing is sensible if you are in there for sure.

I have found that yoke and output bearing vibrations usually start early and get worse as speed increases, they don't usually appear in one narrow range, but will disappear at one certain "sweet spot" where rotation makes everything smooth out.
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the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

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Old 08-01-2019, 03:33 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I believe RWAL is rear wheel antilock and I don't have that. Just the valve that senses load at the rear axle.

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That’s LSPV - load sensing proportional valve. And I agree about checking the balance of the rear tires. You won’t feel that in the steering wheel, although you may get a bit of a vibration (or even shake) at the rear of the car.
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Old 08-01-2019, 07:32 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Busbreath View Post
I don't know what RWAL or LSPV stand for. I blocked the brake pedal partway down when I removed the calipers so no air could enter the master. Then I only have to bleed the front as only small air pocket in the front lines. Works wonderful and Dave's work.

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What & Why? I have never heard of this practice. I have always used a large screwdriver placed between the pad and rotor to compress the piston just enough to remove the caliper and THEN used a C Clamp to compress it completely. I have never had to bleed the brakes after replacing the pads.
As far as the hard pedal, I had a sticking caliper that caused this condition in my case.
As far as the vibration, sound like you have a balance issue or bad tire since your vibration is not RPM related.
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The reason for depressing the master cylinder is because I removed the calipers to rebuild them. Pressing the master partway and blocking it keeps the master from draining with open lines and keeps you from having to bleed the master. You are correct this is not necessary when the calipers are left connected.

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Old 08-01-2019, 07:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Busbreath View Post
The reason for depressing the master cylinder is because I removed the calipers to rebuild them. Pressing the master partway and blocking it keeps the master from draining with open lines and keeps you from having to bleed the master. You are correct this is not necessary when the calipers are left connected.

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and i re-iterate, this WILL NOT prevent fluid from draining from the master cyl reservoir due to the one way valve under the seal cups, and can cause the front piston section in the master cylinder to jam. It will still drain albeit slowly. Don't believe me, check how a master cylinder works and how the non return washer performs its function, this is also why its bad practice (especially on Toyotas) to just push pads back in, it does cause damage in some cases.

bleed your brakes properly.

if a newer model full tandem with bypass drillings then the non return washers are not fitted. They are on these models however.
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2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
2008 Swift M15A
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."

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Old 08-01-2019, 09:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You may be right, I will have to look in the manual... That said, my pedal effort did no change after doing the front brakes and rebuilding the calipers. There is non of the sponginess present when air is present. The system has a proper bleed and fronts and rears are being actuated properly. Issue is what feels to me to be high pedal effort for such a light car with power disk brakes.
This weekend I will replace rear slaves and hose if it arrives in time, but I don't expect that to change pedal effort much if any as they are functional now.
Where is the vacuum check valve located on the brake booster? I don't see one on the vacuum booster itself - is it in the hose?
Thanks,
Doug

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Old 08-02-2019, 07:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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http://acksfaq.com/2016bp.php?urlnam...trackerfsm.htm
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:42 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The check valve is in the hose nearest the booster; if you look close you'll see a bulge near the middle.
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