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Old 04-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I just bought a 87 Samurai yesterday. I will have lots of questions in the near future. The first one is, What octane gas does the Samurai run best with and is it OK to go with the ethanol added gas since the ethanol free is hard to come by? Thanks!
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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If it's stock it will run fine on regular pump gas.
I always go for the highest octane rating. Mine is far from stock though.
Ethanol is an un avoidable evil in this country. Just don't let it sit to long and maintain you're filters......
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info. It is stock.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have a 92 fuel injected model and I use regular gas, but every couple fill ups I will fill up with the higher grade to clean things out. Also when I use regular, I rotate using fuel cleaner then injector cleaner to make sure it is running clean.

Enjoy your Sami and welcome to the family
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I run non-ethanol gas in mine. My Samurai loves that stuff.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada
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Old 11-07-2013, 12:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Non-ethanol fuel will afford you slightly better responsiveness and MPG, pure gasoline has more energy per gallon. I tried ethanol while commuting and it was a cheaper fill up but my MPG suffered enough that it was a wash so I opt for pure gasoline. I have not run it on a dyno but seat of the pants tells me the pure gasoline nets better power. I live up some serious hills and I can see a difference in top speed when I reach the top, in my Marquis, Samurai and the Saab. It's not day and night but it is a difference. Ethanol is tough on old school stuff, it works fine in flex fuel vehicles but for the rest of us its a stretch. NEVER EVER EVER go more than 10% IF you have to use it.

Ethanol sucks in carb vehicles, NEVER EVER EVER use it in your small engines like your saw, splitter, line trimmer etc. I keep it out of mine and I'm going on several seasons on my Stihl without ever having to touch it, and this saw never goes out of season. Before I found the pure gasoline again the small engines were a constant fight with the carb issues, especially if they sit for a month or so.

I wont even begin to discuss how my not quite stock turbo Saab 9-5 feels about ethanol tainted fuel under boost conditions.

I could rant for pages but seriously with pure gasoline my Saab picks up 3mpg across the baord, there is like 1-2 stations left in the area that are not tainted. I'm not sure of the MPG gains with the Samurai but it is noticable climbing hills and I fill up less.

/-rant mode off
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Stock engine = stock octane requirements, which in this case is 87.

Fuel grade does not automatically relate to detergent content or even quality.

E10 makes marginally more power over straight gasoline when the mixture is adjusted to compensate, otherwise it may make the same or marginally less.

10% ethanol should cause about a 4% drop in economy as a rule of thumb; E85 about a 33% drop. I don't know of anywhere that E85 is 33% cheaper than gas, so it's actually more expensive to use. The environmental "benefits" of ethanol as a clean fuel have proven to be a complete fabrication as well.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I will agree. 4% is probably on the low side of my loss of MPG on level ground.

With my Marquis I lost about 8-10% through my 3 hour each way commute (2x week only) I was monitoring my fuel with odo, Scangauge 2 and fuel receipts with same fill-up points. When I took the scenic route it was noticeably less enthusiastic up the hills or to reach 110mph. It was a stock 4.6L EFI in a 4200lb car with no adjustments to compensate for tainted fuel. I nearly kissed 28 with real gasoline and with 10% tainted it would vary from 24-25 @ 60, less consistent MPG as well. The performance hit was not to obvious until I jumped on it, passing gaggles of Harleys and RVs, taking hills etc.

With the Saab I went from 31-ish combined to 27-ish combined. I have gone back and forth a couple times and the results are pretty consistent. Under boost it bucks and protests a bit where as with pure gasoline its a clean solid boost, same oct. No modifications made to burn tainted fuel. (BCB stage 2 ecu, 3"DP/race cat, CAI, 5sp)

With the Samurai I have not measured but I would say the economy is probably closer to 4% than the 10-ish I have realized on my other vehicles. The power hit is noticeable on hills and highway. I'm not real sure what I can do to take advantage of more potential power but I'm sure not seeing it with any of my vehicles. If there is something I can to do tell it the fuel is ethanol tainted I would love to know how. Every time I switched between fuel types I unplugged the battery so the ECU could relearn the new fuel and ran it for a while before switching back. Last time I checked there was no ethanol friendly tune for it.

As far as the environmental impact, it is HUGE. Tens of thousands of acres of beautiful untouched grasslands and preservation lands were plowed over to plant more corn, local water sources polluted, corn prices shot way up. This information is all out there for the viewing. The damage from this is far greater than we were lead to believe when this idea was being pitched (sharp understatement of the cons, see a pattern here?). I'm no tree-hugger but this is so far from a good thing I cant find words suitable for use in public.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caseyjones955 View Post
With the Saab I went from 31-ish combined to 27-ish combined. I have gone back and forth a couple times and the results are pretty consistent. Under boost it bucks and protests a bit where as with pure gasoline its a clean solid boost, same oct. No modifications made to burn tainted fuel. (BCB stage 2 ecu, 3"DP/race cat, CAI, 5sp)
It would be interesting to see what a wideband reports when it's misfiring.

I think boosted cars may be more sensitive, especially older ones with first-generation digital EFI. I had an '84 Mustang SVO that would pull timing like crazy pretty much everywhere but on the top end because it was detecting knock. I always wanted to give it some 100 just to see how it liked good fuel, but sold the car before that ever happened. It's hard to put $100+ in a 15gal tank.

FYI, unleaded gas has to be oxygenated with 10% ethanol in order to be sold for use on-highway in CA....by law. That includes "race" fuels like VP StreetBlaze 100.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The oxygenation requirement blows. I have only the deepest respect for the 2.3 Turbo fords. Had a 74 Pinto with a lightly modified 2.3 Turbo from a Super Coupe. Sleeper... yea! It was back when all gas was pretty good and would easily rival most V8s after 30 mph. The worst issue I had was keeping the carbs synchronized.

I have never programmed fuel injection so I'm not sure whats going on with the Saab, I assume the knock sensor is detecting something not right and dropping the timing. The Pinto I had was just super angry all the time and never missed a beat aside from 2 transmissions and a rear end.

This Saab is a 2005 9-5 so its the last of the REAL Saab engines (not a turbo charged Chevy engine like the 9-3 or later 9-5). I assume modern EFI can compensate for bad fuel with 02, knock sensors et al. I grew up with carbs and all adjustments were seat of the pants and a film canister full of different jets. Manually recurving distributors etc. This is all gone now.

So to not veer tragically off topic, I have no idea how to compensate for this different fuel. If there is more power potential there I wonder if folks who write tunes can write a Ethanol friendly tune.

More specifically, what can be done to the Suzy to help with this. I'm not terribly concerned with MPG, its pretty darn good for rolling on 35s but if I could squeeze even 5 more HP I would be tickled, or even broaden the torque curve a little, anything at all. If I'm not mistaken you cannot re-flash the Suzy ECU, is this correct? If you can would writing a current tune with this tainted fuel in mind help in the slightest way?

How to compensate?
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