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Old 12-06-2012, 10:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Timing mark alignment - 1.6L 8V - quick help!

I am in process of changing my timing belt, and tensioner.... and, well... It's my first, and I don't want to screw it up. SOOOoooo... being I don't have a compression tester, a TDC gauge, or I'm not 100% on anything (I keep second guessing myself) and am not seasoned enough to verify valve lash or cam lobe position just yet...

Would you say, these marks are correct (see below pictures)?
(I'd like to make sure I'm not off one tooth, as the slack in the timing belt seems to allow a bit of play in the two being aligned. It almost looks like the crankshaft is off by half a tooth.)

My other thought, is the mark is showing advanced timing. But again, I'm totally guessing. HELP!
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Timing mark alignment - 1.6L 8V - quick help!-p1010898.jpg   Timing mark alignment - 1.6L 8V - quick help!-p1010897.jpg  
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Last edited by JohnnyAirtime; 12-07-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Hard to tell since your timing belt is not tight.

Did you follow the FSM instructions to rotate the crankshaft clockwise two times to set the tensioner adjustment before tightening down the tensioner bolt.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haptown View Post
Hard to tell since your timing belt is not tight.

Did you follow the FSM instructions to rotate the crankshaft clockwise two times to set the tensioner adjustment before tightening down the tensioner bolt.
I sure did.

And that tensioner is somewhat of a joke (IMO). If I rotate the crankshaft smoothly... it'll adjust. If I use a "not so smooth" rotation, it'll adjust and then back off. It has to be at a specific tightness on the small stud (as the FSM states "do not tighten fully") , or it's not going to work properly at all. And if you tighten it to 8ft/lbs like it says to do... it won't move at all. I also think I'm missing a small washer under the tensioner retaining bolt - which would cause it to not work so smoothly.

I'm going to again, follow the procedure in the FSM and make sure I'm at TDC (exactly) on the crankshaft.... and I'm going to loosen the Valve lash adjusting screws (I've not done that yet, as I haven't turned crank or cam shafts without the belt already mounted).

Before I go any further... the timing belt was tighter on the drivers side when I had the spark plugs in the vehicle. Now that they are all out (making it easier to turn the crankshaft), the belt doesn't stay as tight.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The tensioner is not supposed to move when tightened down. When adjusted correctly, the belt on the longest side should have about 3/8" to 1/2" of deflection. Doesn't matter how hard you push as the timing belt is made to never stretch.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haptown View Post
The tensioner is not supposed to move when tightened down.
I understand that... maybe I explained incorrectly.
When the tensioner is "adjusted correctly" (open to one's own interpretation, as the FSM doesn't exactly say what "correctly" is), you then tighten down the tensioner retaining bolt to 8ft/lbs. Of coarse, it won't move at that point.

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When adjusted correctly, the belt on the longest side should have about 3/8" to 1/2" of deflection. Doesn't matter how hard you push as the timing belt is made to never stretch.
That's the problem... deciding if it's "correctly adjusted". It's not rocket science, but it's not explained in enough detail to be accurate. Not for me anyway. It leaves too much to interpretation by the reader.

As I mentioned, I'm going to have another go at it... from step 1, in the FSM and other 'tips and tricks' website. AND, I'll be "relaxing the rockers" for the tensioning step to set proper cam bias.

... let's see what happens then!
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Also don't expect a 20+ year old spring to have the exact same amount of tension as a new one. So after trying it with the valves and plugs loosened, and it is still too loose, you are just going to have to wing it setting the tensioner.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haptown View Post
Also don't expect a 20+ year old spring to have the exact same amount of tension as a new one. So after trying it with the valves and plugs loosened, and it is still too loose, you are just going to have to wing it setting the tensioner.
I was afraid of that. I'm not good at "winging" something that could end in premature wear, belt breakage, or catastrophe down the road.

Back to my original question;

Do the camshaft and crankshaft timing marks, have to be SPOT ON? I mean, in PERFECT alignment?

If you look at my original post, the crankshaft is off to the left a hair. Not enough to be a full tooth.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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They should be dead one.

One caveat is if the head been shaved/decked to correct for the head being warped or to gain compression. This would result in the cam sprocket being a little retarded, which is not what you are seeing at this time.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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(insert god like sound of 'let there be light')

I went back out (to my garage) and noticed the crank mark will line up perfectly if the drivers side of the belt is tight.

In doing that... I also noticed MY MISTAKE... I have been turning the CAM shaft to see if the marks line up. Now knowing what that causes (more bias, as-if the valve lash adjusting screws were not loose) and the result I got when I did it properly... using the CRANK shaft to turn my two rotations for tensioner adjustment. AND that it now has correctly aligned marks... I feel more like a neanderthal, being that was written in the FSM all this time.

I'm a bit dyslexic, so I have to read twice to comprehend and then... check my work and read again. Same with measure twice, cut once... A rule I have to live by.

I'm going to finish up today. So thank you for your replies. Sometimes we all need a second set of eyes.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Glad you got it figured out. Now when the next guy posts on this board about installing a new timing belt and is having trouble getting the marks to line up, you can ask the question - Did you do the two revolutions to set the tensioner adjustment by turning the crankshaft bolt clockwise and not the camshaft bolt?

If you don't have a go-no-go feeler gauge set, getting one makes setting the valve lash a lot easier.
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