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Old 08-07-2011, 06:26 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why is my PCV valve disabled/plugged?

Hello! I've just bought me a nice SJ410, a 1985, that has got another engine swapped in, done by some previous owner. The guy I bought the car from said the engine is supposed to come out of a Swift, it's the 1.3L G13A engine, 1324cc, carburettor. I notice the air filter housing is from a Swift (see pictures), but the oil filter in the block is narrower, just like a SJ413. So I'm a bit confused whether the whole engine comes out of a swift or not. Maybe they've combined the setup I really don't know.

It has both engine and transmission replaced so this gives me a 5-speed SJ410, very nice.

The only problem right now is that oil is coming into the air filter housing, and it's consuming a lot of oil, about 1 liter per 200 km. I've been reading the forums and have learned it may be some problem with the PCV valve causing oil spillage through excessive blowby.

When I look under the hood I see the PCV valve is not even in place correctly! The valve is installed in the inlet manifold, but is welded at the inlet, and the rubber hose that's supposed to be attached to the PCV valve is plugged. See attached pictures.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1714539/Suzu...V/DSC00459.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1714539/Suzu...V/DSC00460.JPG

I can't get in tough with the guy who has done the engine swap. I really wonder why they've plugged this.

Has anyone of you got a theory about why they might have done that?

Would it cause any harm or other unexpected stuff if I just put in a new PCV valve, and attach the rubber hose? Or could I just grind of the welding and go with the valve that's already in there?

Greatly appreciate any help or suggestions on this!
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The Swifts never used the right angle distributor drive so some degree of combining has been done, and that doesn't look like a Swift air filter housing to me either - they don't usually have any lines going in from above.

PCV valve problems will not cause excessive blowby, but execessive blowby can cause PCV valve problems, and, from the pictures it looks to me like the PCV valve is connected - there's a 1/2" vent in the top of the cam cover that would normally go to the underside of the air filter housing with a T connecting to the PCV valve - it seems to be there in the pictures, except that it connects to the top of the air filter.

There is always some degree of blowby, the purpose of the PCV system is to vent the pressure created by the blowby in an environmentally friendly manner, so instead of relieveing it to the atmosphere the fumes are fed back to the intake and burned.

The prime cause of excessive blowby (and oil consumption) is worn bores/rings - so a good place to start would be wet & dry compression tests - for that engine you should see around 199 psi across all four bores, 170 psi is considered the minimum acceptible, although they will run surprisingly well with a lot less.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default PCV valve with drawing

Thanks for the ideas fordem, I was just planning to purchase a compression measuring tool tomorrow to do the test, I'll get back with those values later on.

But back to the original question, I've been comparing my setup with the drawing that's in the Suzuki service manual chapter 5. See attached picture. Here it states that the tube coming out of the cam cover, is splitted by a T-connection, where one goes into the air filter (this one is in place in my car), and the other end goes into the PCV valve inlet. Now that one is plugged, and the PCV valve itself is sitting in the engine but with no tube attached to it. The length of the plugged tube is exactly correct to have been plugged into the PCV, but for some reason they seem to have thought it better to plug it. I still wonder why.

The fact that I get oil into my air filter, would that be improved at all by reconnecting the PCV valve? Or is it the most reasonable that it's engine wear causing it?
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Why is my PCV valve disabled/plugged?-sj-pcv-draw.jpg   Why is my PCV valve disabled/plugged?-pcv-2.jpg  
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bramlauwers View Post


The fact that I get oil into my air filter, would that be improved at all by reconnecting the PCV valve? Or is it the most reasonable that it's engine wear causing it?
PCV stands for positive crankcase ventilation. Without the PCV valve, you don't have positive crancase ventilation.

Yes, you will always get some oil going by the PCV when near full throttle, but under part-throttle and idle conditions, all or much of the blow-by will get pulled into the PCV valve and into the intake.

Of course, you'll need to un-plug the PCV valve, or replace it. I'd replace it. It may even be bad, and that is why it was plugged. A bad PCV valve will cause an excessive vacuum leak.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I see - the tube to the PCV valve is in place, but plugged.

With the connections as detailed any blowby that occurs will be drawn in through the carburettor intake and burned - with or without a working PCV valve - with a working PCV valve you're probably going to get increased oil consumption, because the PCV system will apply vacuum to the crankcase (that's the "positive" aspect of PCV).

I'd say excessive blowby due to worn bores/rings is the most likely cause of the oil consumption - a compression test will confirm.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Compression test results

Hi again! Today I did the compression test with following results (cyl 1-4):

Dry: 180, 182, 171, 185 psi. The lowest value for cyl 3 I confirmed by retesting it one time, gave exact same result twice.

Wet: 200, 202, 200, 208 psi

So the wet test is more evenly spread than the dry. I also noticed on all cylinders that the pressure builds up in about 5 runs, gradually, on run 6 and afterwards, it stays the same. I don't know if the too I purchased maybe is a bit slow too (25$ piece), but anyhow this might be of interest?

I was at the Suzuki parts shop today and ordered a new PCV valve that I can pick up on thursday. Today when looking at the engine I noticed that they've probably plugged it becuase there's no room for connecting the tube to the pcv valve when it sticks up right into the air filter housing.

I'm still puzzled by this air filter housing, it's like nothing I've seen on any SJ413 image I've seen on the net. Would I benifit from replacing this with a stock housing and get it all setup as intended, or should I just stick with this, it seems to work quite well anyway.

After the compression test I put in brand new spark plugs, the old ones where worn, also they had NGK BRP6ES while I bought BPR5ES as specified in the manual. With the new spark plugs I already notice it runs smoother, revs up smoother/swifter.

Next step is switching oil and filter, I'm going to put in 5W40, original filter. The oil filter that's on it now is a cheap Swift filter, it's too large.

So what I'm gonna do is fill upp the oil to max mark, and drive it for 100 km tomorrow and see if there has been any unusual oil spillage.

Until then, I'd appreciate your comments on the compression results. What's your opinion on this engine's health?

Regards /Bram
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Those compression results look pretty good - much better in fact than I was expecting for an 85 Swift engine - and it is normal for the pressure to "bump up" gradually.

I don't know how much of a benefit there will be to swapping in the original air filter housing - I don't see why there should be any - other than clearance for the PCV hose - it won't make a difference if the breather hose goes in from above or below.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Air filter housing

I agree, it's a bit odd with this air filter housing, but it has it advantages as well: A lot of the complexity in the warm/cold air valve, hoses etc. is eliminated this way, it's just a plate sitting on top of the carburettor. And ordering a new air filter I noticed the dimension exactly fit the Swift year model 1985 so new filters are easy to find and purchase anyway.

What I'm planning to do when I've got the PCV valve home on thursday, is see if I can knock a buckle in the air filter housing to make clearance for the tube. In that way I could make the PCV setup work again as intended, but I'd also have a simple and working setup for the fresch air intake. I think I'm gonna stick with that and enjoy this engine a lot

There will anyway be other work to do with replacing some seals and in that way ensuring that the oil I pour in stays in...

I'm gonna repost with some conclusions in a week or so, now I've got some waiting to do on the parts, and some installing.

Thanks for the inputs, I appreciate it!
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default PCV, problem solved

Hi it's been a few weeks so I thought I should give an update now everything seems to have sorted itself out.

After some delay, I got a brand new PCV valve installed, Suzuki original spare part. The old one came out wthout problems and the new one went in nicely, I applied a bit of Permatex ultra grey before screwing it into place.

The permatex - by the way - I used for resealing the oil pan, which was the cause behind the oil losses! First I took of the pan and applied a new original gasket (cork/rubber), but it still leaked after that. Then I took it off again, realigned the bits of the pan that where not straight, and applied permatex ultra grey as the only sealant, now the pan seems to have stopped leaking completely after some weeks, very nice!

Also the engine is running very smoothly now since the PCV valve was installed. It has fine power, runs great and no more oil comes into the air filter housing, just some very minor drop of condensed fumes but it's a big difference compared to the brownish oil in the air filter before.

So now my mechanical issues are resolved for now, and I'm enjoying the little jeep until next time any issue appears :-)

Thanks for your feedback.
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Old 09-19-2011, 03:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback - and by the way - that original gasket (cork/rubber) is not original - Suzuki does not use a gsket for the pan, just the RTV sealant like you have now.
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