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Old 01-18-2009, 08:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question Engine knock

Hello All

I bought a sj413 just before christmas for off roading. unfortunatly when i got it home i noticed it had a slight knock coming from the engine, it doesent do it a tick over, only when its about 2000/2500 rpm. it doesn't seem to be getting any worse because she got alot off tape over christmas peroid.

any ideas on what it could be or will i just be best pullin the sump off and having a wee look at the shells?

if the engine is knackered, what is the best engine to shoe horn in its place?

Do any diesel engines fit?? if i do have to move any engine mounts thats not a problem because i have the equipment to do that (welder and what not).

cheers for any help.

Sean
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Up grade your gas to a higher octane and the knock will go away.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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FWIW...

I bought an '88 that had a knock similar to your description. Only the higher RPMs and not so much until the engine warms. The knock doesn't keep exact time with the engine RPM and isn't consistent, like it's a bearing or bushing. The ad said "needs engine work" so I was prepared to find the problem.

I put in a new water pump, timing belt and tensioner. Knock still there but they are cheap and easy to change so I didn't mind starting with those unknowns "fresh".

While doing that I found one lower bolt on the alternator bracket broken and the other lower bolt missing. I thought that just may be the problem, but after repairing it this weekend, the knock's still there.

Then I got out my stethoscope, which is what I should've done in the first place. (story of my life)

The knock is coming from the upper rear of the engine. Clutch position or gear selection makes no difference.

While changing cap and rotor, I observed that the rotor had been contacting the terminals on the cap, slightly but they shouldn't touch at all.

I ordered a distributor this morning. I'll post here if it stops the knock since anybody searching for "knock" will find this thread.

This was a long post to suggest you try a mechanic's stethoscope before you start pulling parts, especially the oil pan. A rod or wristpin should give a more consistent knock throughout the RPM range.

Phil
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default knock, knock!!

for phils
maybe piston slap. if the piston skirt is worn it will make the knock like you discribed. piston slap is sometime worse when cold and as engine warms up the knock will get less.
I have seen engines run for a long time with a piston slap knock.
A quick check for rod or wrist pin knock is to pull plug wire and if the knock get less than it you have worn rod bearing or wrist pin.

my guess is it will be piston slap though.

good luck

Last edited by squid; 01-20-2009 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Listening through the stethoscope, the knock isn't coming from the main part of the engine. Also it only starts after the engine is starting to warm. And only in the higher RPMs. Listening carefully, I hear the noise the most (using the stethoscope) on the distributor housing.

I assume there's a bushing on the lower shaft of the dist, and am guessing that's where the noise is coming from. That the rotor was contacting the cap indicates play in that lower bushing too.

But the vacuum advance was shot, so ordering a rebuilt dist was necessary anyway and I'll post back here to muddysj's thread on the results.

I didn't mean to hijack muddy's thread either, just wanted him to know that a knock can be many things and don't dig too deep until the location can be narrowed down.

Phil
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Thats fine phil.
I am taking ur advice, u seem to have a the same problem as me. only its far too cold and wet here to do any investigation work at the minute. so ill leave it with you.

Sean
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddysj View Post
Thats fine phil.
I am taking ur advice, u seem to have a the same problem as me. only its far too cold and wet here to do any investigation work at the minute. so ill leave it with you. Sean
I'm hoping to have the distributor installed this weekend, provided it comes in.

You can use a long screwdriver too (instead of an actual mechanics stethoscope, although those are pretty inexpensive). Just put your ear on the handle of the screwdriver and touch the tip to various places around the engine while it's making the knock.

You might be surprised at how well this method can narrow down the location of an engine noise.

As I mentioned, I didn't bother to dig mine out of the bottom drawer at first because I was going to change the water pump and timing belt and tensioner ANYWAY since they're pretty cheap and easy to install and I had NO idea of the age or condition of 'em. And THEN.... finding the missing and broken bolts on the bottom of the alternator I was SURE I'd found the noise... you could see where it'd been banging around on the stub of the broken bolt.

I'll let you know if the rebuilt distributor solves the problem.

on edit: the parts store just told me that the distributor is "R & R only", meaning I have to pull mine and send it in to be rebuilt and it'll be about 10 days. I'll do some internet searching first and do that as a last resort.

Phil

later edit: got a used one coming from eBay, should be here Monday. The seller said it came off of a good running Sami when I asked specifically if the vacuum advance was good, which means nothing since mine is a "good running" engine (albeit with a knock) but he's including a second vacuum advance 'just in case'. VERY worst case is I'll have a core to send in for rebuild without putting the vehicle down.

Last edited by Phils; 01-22-2009 at 04:37 PM. Reason: upate on distributor
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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OK, there is a common problem with the Samurai engine in that the #3 piston wears causing a knock. After saying that, drop the pan to check the rod bearings to ensure they are good. (you don't want a bad "rod" flying out of the side of the engine at high rev's) If the bearings are good you can drive it for many miles with the noisy piston.....I have!! I have taken the #3 piston out and "knurled" the skirt for a tighter fit which works well.
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Good info Swede!

I am, of course, hoping my knock ISN'T a piston or rod bearing, but I've replaced them before in vehicles much harder to work on than this 1.3L and will do it again if necessary. I'm hoping my used distributor shows up today, tho I probably won't have time to change it until this weekend.

I would be more inclined to believe piston or rod bearing if the knock was keeping better time with RPMs.... it's NOT in "sync" with the revolutions. I've had bad rod bearings before.

But all I can do is "hope" at this point. Good weather predicted for this weekend (I don't have a garage).

Phil
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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"Good weather predicted for this weekend (I don't have a garage)."

Dude you live in California!! How bad can it be? I got up this morning and it is -34 degrees celcius which is like -10000 farenheit I think! My 'zuki fired up after slapping a ceramic heater under the hood for a hour and I'm off to work in the bush......after a 45 minute drive and 5 mile skidoo ride!

But seriously if your 1.3 needs lots of work I would look into a 1.6L swap. It is a world of difference and a good 1.6L is easy to find and swapping is not all that hard. I would not be able to haul my skidoo trailer with out the 1.6L and the fuel economy is not all that different.

Good Luck with the 1.3L knock.
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