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Old 05-31-2019, 11:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 87 Samurai dies when given throttle

This is my Brother inlaws little Sammy and he has had it for a Long long time, and with no issues up to now.
I will gather that data, get some pictures of the engine and carb setup.
I am not even sure if this even has a computer on it as I can see a regular coil and he did replace the fuel pump and filter.

Oh, the problem. It will start right up like its supposed too but once you put any kind of load on the engine, it dies. It won't move out of its own tracks. And, it just started doing it one day with no warnings of any kind.

Me being a Old mechanic, I would check the spark plug to see if the coil is sending out a hot spark to the plugs, meaning Blue spark and not yellow being a weak spark, But with these little guys, I am clueless.

Mine Suzuki is a 91 Geo Tracker with a whole different setup so this one is new to me.
He has one of those Chilton manuals which he is bringing by for me on it.

So, is this a common issue with a common fix or like everything else, Complicated...

Thanks guys, will be back with more details.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Ditch the Chilton, fraught with miss information...

Check for illegal air (intake vacuum), and fuel pressure/flow...

... Philip
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Old 05-31-2019, 12:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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My brother in law brought over the Chilton manual and a update about what the Samurai was doing. Thanks Phillip, never was too keen on those manuals myself.

A update on the problem of not running.
This pretty much lives on his property, pulls a trailer around moves boats and such around with it and Hunting. So, its pretty much kept at home.

He said that at first, it would not Idle. He had to keep feathering the throttle to keep it running and could move it around. Driving on the road, I don't know.

Then out of the blue, he started it several weeks later and it would Idle but not move under its own power. Then started it up some time later (not sure how long) and it would not idle but feathering the throttle, you could drive it around.

He replaced the fuel pump and fuel filter and when I looked at it last summer, it was squirting what I felt was more than enough gas into a bottle.

Now its been setting since last summer, battery is toast so going to get a new battery for it and try and see what it will start or not.

Also, checking air leaks, I have always used a can of starting fluid and sprayed it around the intake. If RPM rize, I found a leak.
How to you check for vacuum leaks ?
Back at it and thank you.
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1988 GMC 1500 stepside lowrider
1979 Chev 4x4 full size pickup.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmar View Post
Also, checking air leaks, I have always used a can of starting fluid and sprayed it around the intake. If RPM rize, I found a leak.
How to you check for vacuum leaks ?
Back at it and thank you.
Starter fuel is explosive, and only shows results when direct contact with leak..

I use a smoke machine and follow the smoke... easy peezy!

You might also try a vacuum gauge (old school) to an unrestricted port...
This will display all types of issues... good vacuum ~19-21hg.

.... Philip
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:55 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Never seen a smoke machine around here (Pacific Northwest USA) so that is pretty much out, do have the old vacuum gauge but not sure what the 'hg" is, sorry. Old guy on this end.
My vacuum gauge is in a old ammo box so I will have to look at it as I was thinking it was in pounds of pressure, but will look.
Just got the battery and going to stuff that in and see if it will even start up.
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1991 Geo Tracker, Plastic top, 4wd,5 spd, 8V 1.6, No Rust !
1976 Dodge B100 Van
1988 GMC 1500 stepside lowrider
1979 Chev 4x4 full size pickup.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmar View Post
Never seen a smoke machine around here (Pacific Northwest USA) so that is pretty much out, do have the old vacuum gauge but not sure what the 'hg" is, sorry. Old guy on this end.
My vacuum gauge is in a old ammo box so I will have to look at it as I was thinking it was in pounds of pressure, but will look.
Just got the battery and going to stuff that in and see if it will even start up.
Old guy here also (71), HG (inches of vacuum), opposite to psi (pressure)

Having thought on it,, it may be a collapsed exhaust system (too high back pressure), ~"0" at idle, max 2psi @ 3000rpm..
Quick test, remove the B1S1 to relieve the pressure,, if run that confirms diagnosis.

.... Philip
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The issue with this is, it would keep changing from Idling and dying when you applied any throttle to the next time you start it, it will move around the yard pulling the heavy sled boats and other trailer, But, as soon as you let off the throttle, it would just die.
It was starting right back up.
Whatever is wrong with it, keeps changing symptoms between the too.

I got the battery but did not get it in. Had to go back into town and get two cans of Wasp Killer as this thing had at least 6 and more wasp or yellow jacket nest all over it.

Every time I would get close to it, more bees swarming around me so I just kept killing and backing away. Hope I got them but just later on today, I seen some inside the cab flying around so not sure where those came from.

Oh yeah, will get some detailed pictures of the engine compartment too.

But, I should be able to get the battery hooked up and will see if she starts up.
thanks again for your help.
Helmar
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1991 Geo Tracker, Plastic top, 4wd,5 spd, 8V 1.6, No Rust !
1976 Dodge B100 Van
1988 GMC 1500 stepside lowrider
1979 Chev 4x4 full size pickup.
Where is Robin Hood when we need him?

Last edited by Helmar; 05-31-2019 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Forgot stuff.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:34 PM   #8 (permalink)
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That could be consistent with a melted CAT,, the honey comb tends to melt, form a ball and rattles around, sometimes lodging in the outlet..

One of the first things I would check,, back pressure..

... Philip
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Old 06-02-2019, 12:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Does this vehicle have a condencer on or in the distributor? I've had issues in the past on different motors that did the same thing. Changed condencer and all was better. Maybe a cheap, easy simple fix. Don.
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Old 06-06-2019, 10:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Dies when throttle is applied.

Quote:
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Does this vehicle have a condencer on or in the distributor? I've had issues in the past on different motors that did the same thing. Changed condencer and all was better. Maybe a cheap, easy simple fix. Don.
I think it does and yes, that is a easy fix. Fact is, I had this issue on a inboard/outboard Volvo issue. It would idle but just as soon as you added power, it would fail Big time. I got the tune up parts and they gave me the wrong picofarad condenser for it. After changing a Bunch of suspected parts, I decided to piggy back the old condenser onto it and the thing took off like a rocket. Good find and good call.

Just a quick update. The sammy had not been started since last year, maybe summer.. I was able to start it without too much fussing, it idled with no issues but just as soon as Any throttle was added, it was like you turned the key off. No sputtering, no sound of anything other than Switch off. Makes me think its a sensor on the carb.

I mean this was switching back and forth from Idling but died with any throttle to running with your foot adding throttle but letting off to idle, it would die.
So far now, every time I started it up (after pulling the air cleaner and installing a new battery), its idling with no throttle.
I am hoping today I get time to mess with it more.

I think I need to find good picture of what all the components are on that carb (sensors) and testing them first. Process of elimination is what is in my head at the moment.
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1991 Geo Tracker, Plastic top, 4wd,5 spd, 8V 1.6, No Rust !
1976 Dodge B100 Van
1988 GMC 1500 stepside lowrider
1979 Chev 4x4 full size pickup.
Where is Robin Hood when we need him?
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