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Old 12-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 88 Samurai wont idle

New Member here, just picked up a rebuilt 88 Samurai Jx. Mechanically pretty much brand new. New Carb, new hoses, new distributor, new radiator, etc.

I drove it home and it just will not idle. If I keep feeding it gas I can keep it running but it simply dies at idle. When cold it surges trying to stay alive.

I checked the mixture and reset it at 2.5 turns out, but that didn't do the trick.
Checked the idle screw and that is set at 1.5 turns in once it made contact.

Any suggestions?
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My old SJ413 had an non idling issue and it turned out to be the intake manifold gasket leaking allowing extra air in. I would assume any of the vacuum hoses could also cause the same issue. Mine was the UK model using the aisin carb so may well be different depending where you are. Either way any intake air leak could cause the same. I found mine by giving it just enough throttle to keep it running then sprayed brake cleaner around the carb/manifold and the rpm went up every time I sprayed around a particular area indicating a leak. If you have a go at this please be careful as obviously the spray is highly flammable. I know what caused mine, offroading I tried to drive between and too the side of some real deep ruts but slid then dropped down the ruts dropping it straight onto the chassis. Guess the impact knackered the gasket, didn't do a whole lot for me
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I see you say new carb, was this fitted before you got it. Standard or some other conversion. I assume its not ticked over properly since you owned it.
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Here are a few pics of the set up! Thanks for the assist!
Attached Thumbnails
88 Samurai wont idle-20181221_154948_1545425440636.jpg   88 Samurai wont idle-20181221_154955_1545425458939.jpg   88 Samurai wont idle-20181221_155003_1545425476533.jpg  
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Old 12-21-2018, 02:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell. View Post
I see you say new carb, was this fitted before you got it. Standard or some other conversion. I assume its not ticked over properly since you owned it.
. I just added a few pics. No it's not idled properly yet...
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Old 12-21-2018, 03:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Assuming all things are checked as per Darrell's post.

has the carb been jetted correctly for your application? Float levels correct? out of the box settings on carbs are notoriously inaccurate, and the float level will shift if the carb gets bumped hard in transit as its bouncing around inside an empty float bowl.

Check the settings and do a full carb setup and jetting runs, then use that as a baseline to work from. Getting it to idle should be easy once the main settings are right.

once float height is correct and jets are within the range of mixture you need then Idle baseline "start from here" settings are done as follows.

Screw idle screw in to a fast tickover, adjust idle mix in till it stumbles, out till it stumbles, then set midway, back idle down to just above where it should be, adjust mix for highest idle, back idle down again, repeat until you have idle at level it should be, then check for flat spots as you lift the revs, richen about 1/2 turn in my experience from best idle mix so flat spot disappears.
see how that goes and if you can get it to idle.

If you can't, then I would check all the timing, both cam and ign, (one would hope this was set correctly at rebuild) , and check for vac leaks between carb and head, crc or wd40 with a spray nozzle along all gasket surfaces will show a leak, idle will change when you find it.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013GV View Post
Assuming all things are checked as per Darrell's post.

has the carb been jetted correctly for your application? Float levels correct? out of the box settings on carbs are notoriously inaccurate, and the float level will shift if the carb gets bumped hard in transit as its bouncing around inside an empty float bowl.

Check the settings and do a full carb setup and jetting runs, then use that as a baseline to work from. Getting it to idle should be easy once the main settings are right.

once float height is correct and jets are within the range of mixture you need then Idle baseline "start from here" settings are done as follows.

Screw idle screw in to a fast tickover, adjust idle mix in till it stumbles, out till it stumbles, then set midway, back idle down to just above where it should be, adjust mix for highest idle, back idle down again, repeat until you have idle at level it should be, then check for flat spots as you lift the revs, richen about 1/2 turn in my experience from best idle mix so flat spot disappears.
see how that goes and if you can get it to idle.

If you can't, then I would check all the timing, both cam and ign, (one would hope this was set correctly at rebuild) , and check for vac leaks between carb and head, crc or wd40 with a spray nozzle along all gasket surfaces will show a leak, idle will change when you find it.
lm just looking for normal road ops.
Looks like a 60/50 jet combo would be correct? I will try to rejet it as I'm just not sure what was put in here on rebuild.
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Old 12-23-2018, 09:03 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You have an aftermarket Weber style carb. I'm focusing on your use of the word "surging" in your OP. This is a symptom of a vacuum leak and a common problem with Weber installs not done correctly. I can almost assure you this is your problem.

First, get your Samurai to idle by cranking up the idle screw. You want it as low as possible to keep it running. It will be much higher than it should be until you fix your problem, but for testing you've got to get it to idle.

Take some carb cleaner with the plastic straw attached. Start aiming at at various points along the intake and base of the carb. Do short half second blasts at each location you are checking. If you hear the engine rpms change when you blast a spot, you've just found your vacuum leak.

Keep in mind there may be more than one.

A common location is the carb adapter plate that sits between the carb and intake. Easy to crack when insatlling this carb. So be sure to check all around the base of your carb. Another common area are the small ports on the intake that should be blocked off. The Weber comes with little rubber caps to block these off, but they are too big for a Samurai. So they often fall off or fit on loose and leak air. I usually fill them with silicone when installing to prevent this. Should be 4 of these.

Lastly, don't forget the two devices under your hood that are vacuum operated: distributor advance and power brake booster (and the hoses that feed them)

Side note: not related to your problem but if you plan to use this rig offroad....turn that carb around. It's mounted backward. The throttle linkage should face the radiator. This is important for offroad because Webers thend to flood out at steep angles. The way you have it mounted it will be problematic on steep ascents. Flipping it around will change the problem to only be on steep descents. Much less frightening. Just an FYI....
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figmo View Post
You have an aftermarket Weber style carb. I'm focusing on your use of the word "surging" in your OP. This is a symptom of a vacuum leak and a common problem with Weber installs not done correctly. I can almost assure you this is your problem.

First, get your Samurai to idle by cranking up the idle screw. You want it as low as possible to keep it running. It will be much higher than it should be until you fix your problem, but for testing you've got to get it to idle.

Take some carb cleaner with the plastic straw attached. Start aiming at at various points along the intake and base of the carb. Do short half second blasts at each location you are checking. If you hear the engine rpms change when you blast a spot, you've just found your vacuum leak.

Keep in mind there may be more than one.

A common location is the carb adapter plate that sits between the carb and intake. Easy to crack when insatlling this carb. So be sure to check all around the base of your carb. Another common area are the small ports on the intake that should be blocked off. The Weber comes with little rubber caps to block these off, but they are too big for a Samurai. So they often fall off or fit on loose and leak air. I usually fill them with silicone when installing to prevent this. Should be 4 of these.

Lastly, don't forget the two devices under your hood that are vacuum operated: distributor advance and power brake booster (and the hoses that feed them)

Side note: not related to your problem but if you plan to use this rig offroad....turn that carb around. It's mounted backward. The throttle linkage should face the radiator. This is important for offroad because Webers thend to flood out at steep angles. The way you have it mounted it will be problematic on steep ascents. Flipping it around will change the problem to only be on steep descents. Much less frightening. Just an FYI....
Thank you! Let me give it a try and I will circle back!
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Figmo View Post
You have an aftermarket Weber style carb. I'm focusing on your use of the word "surging" in your OP. This is a symptom of a vacuum leak and a common problem with Weber installs not done correctly. I can almost assure you this is your problem.

First, get your Samurai to idle by cranking up the idle screw. You want it as low as possible to keep it running. It will be much higher than it should be until you fix your problem, but for testing you've got to get it to idle.

Take some carb cleaner with the plastic straw attached. Start aiming at at various points along the intake and base of the carb. Do short half second blasts at each location you are checking. If you hear the engine rpms change when you blast a spot, you've just found your vacuum leak.

Keep in mind there may be more than one.

A common location is the carb adapter plate that sits between the carb and intake. Easy to crack when insatlling this carb. So be sure to check all around the base of your carb. Another common area are the small ports on the intake that should be blocked off. The Weber comes with little rubber caps to block these off, but they are too big for a Samurai. So they often fall off or fit on loose and leak air. I usually fill them with silicone when installing to prevent this. Should be 4 of these.

Lastly, don't forget the two devices under your hood that are vacuum operated: distributor advance and power brake booster (and the hoses that feed them)

Side note: not related to your problem but if you plan to use this rig offroad....turn that carb around. It's mounted backward. The throttle linkage should face the radiator. This is important for offroad because Webers thend to flood out at steep angles. The way you have it mounted it will be problematic on steep ascents. Flipping it around will change the problem to only be on steep descents. Much less frightening. Just an FYI....
. Sure nough. Vacuum leak. Found it and all the rest was easy. Thank you!
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