Multiple electrical problems - maybe one common cause? - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site
Suzuki Forum Suzuki Forums

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Suzuki Jimny, Sierra & Samurai Forum
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance Advertise

Suzuki-Forums.com is the premier Suzuki All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By 2013GV
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2018, 02:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery: 0
blickbox is on a distinguished road
Question Multiple electrical problems - maybe one common cause?

I'm having some problems with my 1985 SJ410. I owned this car for about 2 years, and drove maybe 4000km with it.

The biggest problems are:

1. Voltage gauge in dash seems low. See the amazing illustration I have attached. This could mean nothing though (defectiv gauge) - I have never seen it in the middle part of the yellow before.
The battery seems fine - It meassures 12.6V - even after staying parked in the garage for 3 months. When driving I meassured it to 13.6 - that is a bit low?

2. Brake lights doesn't work. All other lights works. But the weird thing, sometimes they will just start working again. Luckily, for no reason, they started working the day of last state inspection
Checked the sensor at pedal, and it moves fine.

3. Ignition will sometimes not light up dash when I turn the key to ON (not starting). Usually the dash light should come on immediately. But sometimes they will not light up for some time. They always come on at one point though, not sure if it's because I try to switch key on/off, or it's just a matter of waiting. Important to note though: When I turn key to ON and no lights show in dash - stereo will still play, and the starter engine will turn if I try - but engine will not start

Other things not working:
- 4WD light (worked when I first bought the car)
- Air fan - It worked one time, but after that never.


What I already tried:
I checked all ground wires I could find in the engine compartment. Also did a complete reinstall of battery terminals w/wires.

I looked at the grounds under the rear lights. I unscrewed some and cleaned, but some had stuck screw so I couldn't - but it all looks good...

What are some other ground points I should check? I can't really find any ground wires near the fuse boxes? I think there was one tiny wire infront of the door, is that all?
Attached Thumbnails
Multiple electrical problems - maybe one common cause?-voltmeter.png  

Last edited by blickbox; 10-11-2018 at 03:04 PM.
blickbox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-11-2018, 06:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
Posts: 11,864
Gallery: 0
fordem will become famous soon enough
Default

Do you have a test-meter, do you know how to use it - because apart from the battery voltage I don't see one being used to diagnose the issue...

Let's start with the brake lights - that "sensor" is actually a switch, you check for voltage between ground and the switch terminals, with the pedal depressed and you'll know if the "sensor" works or not - sure it moves, but is there continuity?

Ignition switch - do you have voltage to the switch? Do you have voltage after the switch, when you turn it to the "on" position? Could it be a defective switch? Maybe a bad fusible link?

The 4WD light - maybe a blown bulb?

A VOM (if you're old school) or a DMM (for the youngsters amongst us) is essential if you're trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem, kind of eliminates the guess work...
__________________
98 - 1.8 Mitsubishi Pajero iO
98 - 2.0 Suzuki Grand Vitara - SQ420
05 - 2.0 Suzuki Grand Vitara - JB420
15 - 2.4 Kia Sportage
fordem is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2018, 07:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,446
Gallery: 0
2013GV is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordem View Post
Do you have a test-meter, do you know how to use it - because apart from the battery voltage I don't see one being used to diagnose the issue...

Let's start with the brake lights - that "sensor" is actually a switch, you check for voltage between ground and the switch terminals, with the pedal depressed and you'll know if the "sensor" works or not - sure it moves, but is there continuity?

Ignition switch - do you have voltage to the switch? Do you have voltage after the switch, when you turn it to the "on" position? Could it be a defective switch? Maybe a bad fusible link?

The 4WD light - maybe a blown bulb?

A VOM (if you're old school) or a DMM (for the youngsters amongst us) is essential if you're trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem, kind of eliminates the guess work...
My first thought with the symptoms.....faulty ignition switch contact for the main "ign" circuit, that will explain low voltmeter, no dash lights and still having radio (acc contact) and crank but no start. Fusible link could be a cause but they usually get worse and turn into a permanent no power condition.

As Fordem suggests, get a multimeter on DC volts range and check the ignition contact to ground voltage at the switch and see if its the same as the "live" feed to the switch next time it has a problem and won't light up the dash lights. If theres a difference, then thats the first thing to change. Those contacts do wear out and fail. Wiggling the key works sometimes...its not a cure, but its a good indication that the switch might be faulty.

Brake lights, I think this could be a separate issue and could be connections or brake switch, or corroded fuse box....almost anything.

Fordem, not having a circuit diagram handy for the early 410's, do they have a "master" ign relay or just direct from the ign switch? I don't have one in the shop at the moment to look at.
__________________
2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."
2013GV is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-12-2018, 05:05 AM   #4 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 16
Gallery: 0
blickbox is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks for the replies. I have a multi-meter, but I don't know how to use it other than connecting to + and - and read the voltage.

I'm just making it easy and order a new ignition switch, so I get two nice new keys also.

I unplugged the brake switch, and plugged it in again, and suddenly the lights work. Not sure it's that easy though, they worked earlier also. I just ordered a new brake switch, it was just $10, so might as well replace it. There's two wires connected - does it matter which is connected to which? Or is this simply a matter of completing a circuit when switch is released? (e.g, i can just connect the two wires and brake lights should light?)

I attatched a wiring diagram (not sure it applies for my car, since it's 85)
Attached Thumbnails
Multiple electrical problems - maybe one common cause?-1_86-88_samurai_wiring_diagram.jpg  
blickbox is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2018, 09:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,446
Gallery: 0
2013GV is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blickbox View Post
Thanks for the replies. I have a multi-meter, but I don't know how to use it other than connecting to + and - and read the voltage.

I'm just making it easy and order a new ignition switch, so I get two nice new keys also.

I unplugged the brake switch, and plugged it in again, and suddenly the lights work. Not sure it's that easy though, they worked earlier also. I just ordered a new brake switch, it was just $10, so might as well replace it. There's two wires connected - does it matter which is connected to which? Or is this simply a matter of completing a circuit when switch is released? (e.g, i can just connect the two wires and brake lights should light?)

I attatched a wiring diagram (not sure it applies for my car, since it's 85)
looking at the diagram as best I can, i suspect the ignition switch given what does and doesn't work from what you said earlier.

multi meter, easy to use, you have got the "voltage measurement " right, thats how it works, other handy feature is the ohms or diode test ranges, these are used for continuity, switch it to those ranges, short the leads should read 0 or pretty close to it (lead resistance comes into play here, maybe 0.2 ohms) and infinity or O/L when leads not shorted. Use this to check if wires are broken, broken wire will have infinite resistance, continuous wire will have very low resistance. Check a brake light bulb, that will show a value if good, and high resistance if blown.

Yep, it can be that easy to fix the fault sometimes, simply unplug and plug back in.
Brake light switch is just that, a switch. Wires don't care on that item, either way is fine. Adjustment is pretty straightforward as well. Set it so the lights are off when pedal is released, and they come on just before the brakes "bite" this way you can touch the pedal to warn the tailgating idiot behind you before the brakes actually start to work.
blickbox likes this.
__________________
2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."

Last edited by 2013GV; 10-12-2018 at 09:58 AM.
2013GV is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2018, 10:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Georgetown, Guyana
Posts: 11,864
Gallery: 0
fordem will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013GV View Post
Fordem, not having a circuit diagram handy for the early 410's, do they have a "master" ign relay or just direct from the ign switch? I don't have one in the shop at the moment to look at.
I don't think Suzukis of this vintage had any relays at all...
__________________
98 - 1.8 Mitsubishi Pajero iO
98 - 2.0 Suzuki Grand Vitara - SQ420
05 - 2.0 Suzuki Grand Vitara - JB420
15 - 2.4 Kia Sportage
fordem is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2018, 10:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,446
Gallery: 0
2013GV is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordem View Post
I don't think Suzukis of this vintage had any relays at all...
I didn't think they did either, but i've seen some crazy things in a few here that have come in from Japan. Nothing like the equivalent NZ new version
__________________
2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."
2013GV is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2018, 03:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Darrell.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 4,933
Gallery: 0
Darrell. is on a distinguished road
Default

These are from the 410 workshop manual 99500-80002-01E.
They are for the 1985 onwards (plastic radiator grill).
The 82-84 is very basic wiring which I can post if need be (metal radiator grill).
This is from the workshop manual available in the UK so have no idea about variations worldwide.


__________________
2005 Grand Vitara MT 1600se.
Darrell. is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Suzuki Jimny, Sierra & Samurai Forum

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.