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Old 06-23-2008, 09:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Engine won't fire after repainting Samurai.

Here is my problem...

Stripped down a 91 Samurai with 93 geo tracker engine for paintiing.

Bascially stripped to dash, steering column, pedals and sticks. Put the seat in to drive to paint shop and did same on return trip (about 1 1/2 miles each way). I have had this sami for 9 months and has never failed to start.

They did take off the hood to paint the car and there was a lot of dust when I opened hood after I DROVE this car back to my garage to put back together. I must say I did NOTHING under the hood to prepare this for painting or when putting back together.

After it was completely back together I went to start and it cranked but wouldn't fire. Had someone who knows about engine check some things and the rotor is turning but I am not getting a spark. AGAIN I drove this back from the paint shop (about 1 1/2 miles away) and parked it for 24 hours while I reassembled as the outside parts.

The guy who looked at it says it's probably the ignition module ($300+) or the pickup coil ($150)... neither of which I can have tested (so I need to buy with no chance of return on either).

Two questions.

1) The car is a 91 Samurai with 93 Tracker engine.... the Ignition module looks like it belongs to the 91 Samurai... is that possible and does that mean that the distributor also belongs to the 91 or could it (and should it) belong to the 93 Tracker. How do I tell?

2) Since it started a few times for the painter to move it around his shop... and it started fine for me to drive it home and into my own garage... is it possible that some paint dust warmed up enough somewhere around the distributor (on the way home) to foul something up that I am not seeing (I really would rather spend $300+ on some wheel rims if I don't have to replace a Ignition module).

I hate working under the hood of a car and you'll need to fully explain yourself with any answer as I am not experienced under the hood either.
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Engine won't fire after repainting Samurai.-2008_0709_174737.jpg   Engine won't fire after repainting Samurai.-2008_0709_175428.jpg  

Last edited by KyleKoehler; 07-10-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: finished... found problem... attaching pictures
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Old 06-23-2008, 05:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Most electrical problems are a wire coming loose or a bad ground. Check for 12 volts with a meter at the coil with the ignition on. Unplug and replug all connectors between coil and distributor. Check carefully for all grounds. I just had one of the ignition modules go bad, after towing with the transmission accidentally in reverse. Nothing else was hurt. I bought a whole used distributor and coil for under $70 from EBAY. It looked terrible with salt crust and wouldn't work till I cleaned it good to get a good ground. There is a procedure for testing the igniton module involving an analog voltmeter (who still own one)

I have a question, also related. When I was working on mine, I removed the capacitor (condenser) lead from the coil and can't remember which side it went to. Mine is an 86. The diagrams I have looked at don't show it. Condensers are normally located on the point side but electronic units usually have them built in. This could be a radio interference filter, which would be located on the 12 volt side of the coil. Could someone take a look and see which side it is on (brown or black lead?)

Good Luck
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86toad View Post

I have a question, also related. When I was working on mine, I removed the capacitor (condenser) lead from the coil and can't remember which side it went to. Mine is an 86. The diagrams I have looked at don't show it. Condensers are normally located on the point side but electronic units usually have them built in. This could be a radio interference filter, which would be located on the 12 volt side of the coil. Could someone take a look and see which side it is on (brown or black lead?)
Night has befallen so I can't go look now but tomorrow I'll go take a picture for you. Mine is an 88 Samurai which should be identical to your 86.

If you don't hear from me in a couple days, remind me.... I'm very ADD
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleKoehler View Post
Here is my problem...

Stripped down a 91 Samurai with 93 geo tracker engine for paintiing.

Bascially stripped to dash, steering column, pedals and sticks. Put the seat in to drive to paint shop and did same on return trip (about 1 1/2 miles each way). I have had this sami for 9 months and has never failed to start.
This is a COMPLETE and total hunch/guess but have you checked to see if its getting gas? If you painted the entire car its possible that the paint has affected the fuel filter. If you look up under the rear passenger tire you will see the fuel filter there, totally out in the open. If its an old filter and has been plugged up to begin with its possible that the paint affected it and its working and not working based on bouncing around and moving dirt inside.

When you did drive it did the car seem to run ok?
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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if im not mistaken the coil and ignition stuff on a 91 is different than that of an older sami, due to fuel injection.

good luck man.

i am currently having my own electrical gremlins with coil and igniter module. but i think junk yard parts are the best way to go....at least cheaper.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mule View Post
if im not mistaken the coil and ignition stuff on a 91 is different than that of an older sami, due to fuel injection.

good luck man.

i am currently having my own electrical gremlins with coil and igniter module. but i think junk yard parts are the best way to go....at least cheaper.
Possibly but 86toad said he has an 86 and not a 91. The 86 should be the same as my 88.

OTOH, I'm not totally sure they are that different. Could be different between the tracker engine since I never really saw those but I know that the FI samurai motors were throttle body and literally appeared to have the FI just thrown right in where the carb would (and probably still could) go. I can't confirm or deny this, however
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default follow up with painter

I called the painter today to make sure he didn't try to remove anything around the dash board.... that would cause problems with the ECM.

This car was painted completely inside and out. He did suggest I check the neuytral safety switch and see if it didn't get unplugged when they were pulling the tape off the pedals after painting.

Two things here... (1) it started fine to drive this home. and (2) I assume the neutral safety switch would stop the starter from turning... not the engine from firing (he seemed to think otherwise).

I am at work right now so I can't check this. But I also realized that I put a "Clickety Starter" fix on my suzuki that delivers power from my battery right to the starter recently (before I started working on the body work).

QUESTION: does the nuetral safety switch stop the starter or the firing of the coil? or both? Could the Clickety Starter thing be allowing the engine to crank and nuetral safety switch stopping the firing of the engine?

This doesn't sound right... but I am hopeful. I am assuming my paint guy knows a little more than me.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KyleKoehler View Post
QUESTION: does the nuetral safety switch stop the starter or the firing of the coil? or both? Could the Clickety Starter thing be allowing the engine to crank and nuetral safety switch stopping the firing of the engine?
I went out to see what mine did and found out the hard way that there is no such thing on an 88 (or at least on MY 88).... I turned the key while in gear and foot off the clutch and I moved
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bblboy54 View Post
Night has befallen so I can't go look now but tomorrow I'll go take a picture for you. Mine is an 88 Samurai which should be identical to your 86.

If you don't hear from me in a couple days, remind me.... I'm very ADD
Does this help you out? Looks like the brown wire is on the top or right side (or left, I guess, depending on how you look at it)
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bblboy54 View Post
Possibly but 86toad said he has an 86 and not a 91. The 86 should be the same as my 88.
but if you refer to kylekoehler (original poster) sami, is a 91, and the ignition/coil configuration (for lack of better term) are different. i do know this because my 90 is different from the carb'd sami.

and i am pretty certain - 90% sure that both the 8 & 16 valve trackkick engines use a different coil/ignition system than the FI sami. i have been junk yard digging for ignition parts and they dont all match up.

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