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Old 09-14-2013, 04:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default overheating issues

hi all. i have a 2005 forenza 4L 2.0 auto 2wd 101k. i was at a stoplight when i noticed the temp gauge rising the light turned and i got on the freeway(probably should have turned the car off but i drove home anyway). the temp immediately cooled back to to normal so assumed i had airflow problems. i began diagnosing the problem by testing the fans manually via 12v jumper wires directly to the fan motors. the larger fan spun but the smaller one was bad. i replaced it and started it up. i assumed the smaller fan was for ac and the larger for radiator. the larger fan never seems to come on so i assumed there was a problem and replaced the coolant temp sensor. i still have not seen the larger fan come on(not sure when it should) but the smaller one cycles with the ac and comes on at mid temp with the ac off. the problem now is that the overflow bottle is boiling over at mid temp(according to the gauge) right before or right as the smaller fan is coming on. i need help figuring out what to do next. im thinking possible thermostat failure, bad water pump, clogged radiator or blown head gasket(i see no mikyness in oil nor white smoke in exhaust). i have been driving the car and have been adding water as it boils over just to get me to and from work. since then i have had misfiring (code p0300) i have a limited budget but i am pretty good with a wrench. any help would be appreciated.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezie View Post
hi all. i have a 2005 forenza 4L 2.0 auto 2wd 101k. i was at a stoplight when i noticed the temp gauge rising the light turned and i got on the freeway(probably should have turned the car off but i drove home anyway). the temp immediately cooled back to to normal so assumed i had airflow problems. i began diagnosing the problem by testing the fans manually via 12v jumper wires directly to the fan motors. the larger fan spun but the smaller one was bad. i replaced it and started it up. i assumed the smaller fan was for ac and the larger for radiator. the larger fan never seems to come on so i assumed there was a problem and replaced the coolant temp sensor. i still have not seen the larger fan come on(not sure when it should) but the smaller one cycles with the ac and comes on at mid temp with the ac off. the problem now is that the overflow bottle is boiling over at mid temp(according to the gauge) right before or right as the smaller fan is coming on. i need help figuring out what to do next. im thinking possible thermostat failure, bad water pump, clogged radiator or blown head gasket(i see no mikyness in oil nor white smoke in exhaust). i have been driving the car and have been adding water as it boils over just to get me to and from work. since then i have had misfiring (code p0300) i have a limited budget but i am pretty good with a wrench. any help would be appreciated.
In your engine room fuse and relay block, visually inspect the fuses "COOL FAN LOW 20A" and "COOL FAN HI 30A".
Next you will want to test your COOL FAN LOW and COOL FAN HI relays. Do this by substituting with a known working relay I remove them one at a time and insert them into the PWR WNDW relay socket next to them. If my power windows still work, the relay is good.
If these items check out good, there is a third relay called the Cooling Fan Control Relay. It is located adjacent to the main (large) fan attached to the frame of the car with a bolt. You'll need to test this one with a known good one. I think it's the same pin configuration as the previously mentioned relays, but with a weatherproof cover, but I'm not 100% sure (can't remember). I do know it is possible to splice in your own relay/socket combo. Not easy, but doable. If you wish to go this route, let me know and I'll help post the wiring diagram.
Good luck!
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I probably should have posted this info from the manual first

The cooling fans are mounted behind the radiator in the engine compartment. The electric cooling fans increase
the flow of air across the radiator fins and across the condenser on air condition (A/C)-equipped vehicles. This
helps to speed cooling when the vehicle is at idle or moving at low speeds.

The main fan size is 340 mm (13.4 in.) in diameter with five blades to aid the air flow through the radiator and
the condenser. An electric motor attached to the radiator support drives the fan.

A/C models have two fans-the main fan and the auxiliary fan. The auxiliary fan is 300 mm (11.8 in.) in
diameter. Non-A/C models have only the main fan.

A/C OFF or Non-A/C Model:

- The cooling fans are actuated by the Engine Control Module (ECM) using a low-speed cooling fan relay
and a high-speed cooling fan relay. On A/C-equipped vehicles, a series/parallel cooling fan relay is also
used.
- The ECM will turn the cooling fans ON at low speed when the coolant temperature reaches 93 C (199
F) and at high speed when the coolant temperature reaches 97 C (207 F).
- The ECM will change the cooling fans from high speed to low speed at 94 C (201 F) and will turn the
cooling fans OFF at 90 C (194 F).

A/C ON:

- The ECM will turn the cooling fans on at low speed when the A/C system is ON. The ECM will change
to high speed when the coolant temperature reaches 115 C (239 F) or the high side A/C pressure
reaches 1,859 kPa (270 psi).
- The cooling fans will return to low speed when the coolant temperature reaches 113 C (235 F) and the
high side A/C pressure reaches 1,449 kPa (210 psi).
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
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thanks p1nky, i had all ready checked the two relays in the fuse box(forgot to mention that in post) but i was not aware of the third. i will go look for it now. can you be a little more specific about the third relay's location just in case i cant find it?

***edit*** i found the third relay i am heading to a parts store to see if i can test it. it has 5 pins instead of 4 like the others

Last edited by geezie; 09-14-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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i tested the relay it is a 5 pin(the others are 4 pin)
ooooooooo
o30ooo86o
o~ooooo~o
o85o87*o87
o~oo~oo~o

i gave power via 12v jumper to the 85, grounded the 86, clicked as it should. tested the resistance through the 30 to both the 87* and the 87, the 87* circuit was open the 87 was closed i assume the relay is bad?

Last edited by geezie; 09-14-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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When you apply power to the relay, you should have continuity between pins 30 and 87 and no continuity between 30 and 87a.
When you remove power, it should have continuity between 30 and 87a and no continuity between 30 and 87.

If it checks out, you need to check the wiring leading to it. Be careful working around this area and keep clear of the fan!

Pin 87 (Black wire) is ground (it is bolted directly to the frame somewhere behind the left headlamp). Check to see if there is ground present.
Pin 85 (Pink/Black wire) should have +12v when the ignition switch is in the RUN position.
Pin 30 (Light Blue) goes directly to a terminal on the main fan (large one). Unplug the fan and check this wire for continuity. The other wire of this fan (also light blue) goes directly to pin 87 of the COOL FAN LO relay.
Pin 87a (Violet wire) goes directly to terminal 2 on the auxiliary fan (small one). Unplug this fan and check for continuity. Terminal 1 of this fan goes directly to chassis ground.
Lastly, pin 86 (Gray wire) carries the ground signal from the ECM which makes the Hi/Low switching possible. It connects to a Blue wire which then connects to pin E34 on the ECM and pin 85 on the COOL FAN HI relay.

I'll try to make the schematic available, but I'm currently having trouble with my PDF reader.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:34 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Lastly, pin 86 (Gray wire) carries the ground signal from the ECM which makes the Hi/Low switching possible. It connects to a Blue wire which then connects to pin E34 on the ECM and pin 85 on the COOL FAN HI relay.

you lost me at this step.
everything else checks out, relay good, and continuity was good until the last step, i tried testing continuity between pin 86(grey) and 85 on the cool fan hi relay but got none i couldnt reach the ecm so i will access it and wait on your response. thanks again
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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ok i accessed the ecm is this pinout correct? https://www.suzuki-forums.com/general...html#post94963

***edit*** i also replaced the spark plugs and valve cover gasket. it seems to have resolved the p0300 codes, i have not driven it yet thought

Last edited by geezie; 09-14-2013 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default ***correction***

Me - "Lastly, pin 86 (Gray wire) carries the ground signal from the ECM which makes the Hi/Low switching possible. It connects to a Blue wire which then connects to pin E34 on the ECM and pin 85 on the COOL FAN HI relay."

You - "you lost me at this step."

No wonder I lost you; That last bit of info is partially incorrect. I pulled it off the schematic I had, which was for the '07 Forenza, and it seems the ECM pinout differs. The correct pin should be K12, Dark Blue wire and is designated (on the schematic you found, which is the correct one) High Speed Cooling Fan Relay Control.

So, according to this schematic;

Pin 86 (Gray wire) of the COOLING FAN CONTROL RELAY goes directly to pin 10 of connector C113 (black 16 pin square connector Behind ECM Bracket).

Then it connects via another gray wire to pin 24 of connector C108 (black 24 pin rectangular connector at the Left Engine Fuse Block).

After this connector it becomes (or is spliced to) 2 Dark Blue wires.

One goes to pin 5 of connector C106 (white 20 pin rectangular connector at the Engine Fuse Block) and further to pin 85 on the COOL FAN HI RELAY.

The other Blue Wire goes directly to pin K12 on the ECM.

Under the schematic you will find the connector information, along with their pinouts.
Sorry for the late response and the confusion. I will edit the original post to reflect the error.

***edit*** cannot edit previous post. I hope readers will refer here for the corrected version.

Last edited by P1NkY; 09-15-2013 at 10:00 AM. Reason: corrections to previous post
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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ok that wiring diagram helped, checked the continuity, it was good. studied the wiring diagram and decided to give the ECM k28 pin(from the wiring harness) 12v manually, both fans came on. i guess the next step is finding out why the ECM is not telling the fans to come on?
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