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Old 07-30-2018, 10:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Looking for advice from a mechanic

Hi,

If a starter motor (On a Suzuki Carry 2004) fails and is replaced by one that does not turn over immediately (Taking a couple of seconds before engaging, occasionally needing a clout with a bit of wood, and finally (After 6 months found to be faulty) is replaced with one that now works fine.
Question:
Could this damage the alternator in any way, eg effect (Reduce) the voltage.

Note: The original starter motor (Before it failed, turned over immediately come rain or shine)

Reason I ask is that every so often (Daily) when I turn the key in the ignition the starter motor will not engage, all that happens is the lights on the dashboard turn on (So there's power).
If I keep turning the ignition key eventually the van will start (After about 4 attempts)

Or could the problem be with the ignition system or starter reply?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 07-30-2018, 01:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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welcome
to the forum!

Look up clicky starter, it seems to strike various Suzukis.

It most likely did not affect the alternator other than making it work a bit harder to keep the battery charged if the starter engaged but did not spin causing it to draw more amperage than normal.

Quote:
or starter reply?
Did you mean relay?

Yes, the clicky starter is all about the relay not working as it should, but it getting voltage is a part of the issue. Check it out.

Wow, did I just correct something Indianajones said!!!

BTW, just my 2cents, I never claimed to be a mechanic, I just enjoy tinkering.

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Last edited by Donewrken; 07-30-2018 at 01:14 PM. Reason: added the btw
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hi Donewrken,

Many thanks for your response.

In a nutshell:

The story of the fault covers approx 9 months.

1) Back in November 2017 my Starter Motor failed, up until then the Starter Motor would start immediately first time every time.

2) Took the van into a garage who identified that the Starter Motor was faulty and replaced it. They ordered the suggested Starter Motor but it did not arrive so they fixed another that cost a little more but was said to be fully compatible.

3) I picked up the van but found that the Starter Motor would not engage immediately anymore, so I booked it back in to the garage for them to check.

4) The garage said there was nothing wrong with the Starter Motor and that there wasn’t a fault, that was just the way it goes!!!.

5) I continued to drive the van until I moved to a new location and when my MOT was due in May I took it into another garage (Same company).

6) They found the Starter Motor to be faulty and replaced it (Free of charge), they also said that the Alternator was a little low on voltage, but should not be a problem.

7) Since then I have had problems with the Starter Motor not always engaging immediately on turning the key in the ignition (Some times I have to turn the key more than 4 times to get it to engage!!!)

8) I took the van back to the garage and they ran a diagnostics and found that the Alternator was a little low on voltage and said that this may be the problem with the car not turning over immediately. I asked about the Starter Relay and Ignition System and they said yes the problem may be any of these but are it was hard to tell.

They want to replace the Alternator!

I don't think the new Starter Motor or Alternator are at fault I think it might be the Starter Relay or Ignition Switch (Or something else, I'm not a mechanic).

They want to charge to repair the fault even though I believe they (The garage company) caused the problem in the first place by not putting the correct (Or a faulty) Starter Motor in the van back in November 2017.

If not the Alternator they will then look to replace other parts until the fault has been corrected, but still want to charge....Ridicules.

I have been in contact with their Head Office who has said that they will repair the fault free of charge if it can be identified as being linked too, or caused by the original fault.

I am so annoyed, which is why I am here asking people with a better understanding of motors for their thoughts.

Therefore, the question is:

If a faulty Starter Motor (Or one that was not fully compatible) was put into the van back in November 2017, could this have affected the Alternator, Starter Relay or Ignition System.

Problems over the last 9 months include having to hit the Starter Motor with a lump of wood, and since having it replace AGAIN having problems getting the Starter Motor to engage.

Turning the key in the ignition repeatedly before the Starter Motor engages must be putting an electrical strain on something, or maybe an additional fault was caused in the 9 months living with a faulty Starter Motor?

Help please,
Thanks Indy

Ps: I am always being corrected lol
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaJones View Post
I am so annoyed, which is why I am here asking people with a better understanding of motors for their thoughts.

Therefore, the question is:

If a faulty Starter Motor (Or one that was not fully compatible) was put into the van back in November 2017, could this have affected the Alternator, Starter Relay or Ignition System.
Unlikely

Quote:
Problems over the last 9 months include having to hit the Starter Motor with a lump of wood, and since having it replace AGAIN having problems getting the Starter Motor to engage.
If hitting the starter motor resolves the issue, chances are the starter motor itself is the fault.

Quote:
Turning the key in the ignition repeatedly before the Starter Motor engages must be putting an electrical strain on something, or maybe an additional fault was caused in the 9 months living with a faulty Starter Motor?
Every time you turn the key to the start position there is an infinitesimal amount of wear on the switch and it's contacts, and at some point the switch will wear out and need to be replaced - I just swapped out one on a twenty year old car.

A couple of comments ...

First - I don't think an 04 Carry has a starter relay per se, it does have a starter solenoid, which handles both engagement of the bendix and switches the current to the motor, but that's typically considered a part of the starter motor and replaced with it.

Second - the starter electrical system is a very simple circuit and as long as the "delayed start" symptom is consistent, it should not take a competent auto-electrician more than a few tries to pin down which part of the circuit needs to be looked at - whoever told you that there wasn’t a fault, that was just the way it goes was BSing you and your mistake was accepting that when you knew from previous use of the vehicle that there was a fault.

Third - the alternator output has nothing to do with the starter engaging or not engaging - there is no alternator output until the engine is started - the alternator charges the battery, and the battery starts the car - if the battery is flat, or discharged, and too weak to start the car, then you can blame the alternator, and you will know this is the case when the starter engages and cranks slowly - so to speak RRRR - RRrr - rrrr - followed by silence.

Because of the prolonged time span, you may have multiple faults, a worn ignition switch is one, a defective starter is another, the clutch or neutral safety switch (if fitted) are other suspects - put a test light on the starter solenoid control terminal and turn the key to start - it will either light or not - light and no crank is a defective starter - no light no crank would indicate a fault external to the starter and would require a more detailed examination.

Whilst knowing the "back story" is good, it does not help to pin down the problem area, that needs "hands on" investigation by someone with knowledge & experience.
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Ps: I am always being corrected
LOL!!

All good advice.

You haven't mentioned if it is an automatic or a stick.
The mention of the clutch switch made me think of the other safety switches.

If it's an automatic, have you tried shifting into neutral and try starting it?

If that works it would point to the switch out of adjustment and or defective.


Do not have the alternator replaced.
They are trying to milk you with that suggestion.
It sounds as if they are looking for income, not results.

By the way, how old is your battery and what is the voltage when checked with a volt-ohm meter.
If you don't own one - get one, about $5-$20 bucks will get you by.
Link

They start around $4.98 on Amazon.

A good healthy battery will read in the neighborhood of 13 - 13.5 volts
older batteries 12.2 - 12.8.

Below 12 volts, time to go shopping.

Don



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Old 08-01-2018, 02:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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and anything below 10.2 when cranking indicates battery capacity is borderline
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