Never before attempted 1985 ST90V/Carry Van Engine swap - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site
Suzuki Forum Suzuki Forums

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Other Suzuki Models > Suzuki Carry & Every Forum
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance Advertise

Suzuki-Forums.com is the premier Suzuki All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2017, 02:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Johannesburg South Africa
Posts: 6
Gallery: 0
toxicehc is on a distinguished road
Default Never before attempted 1985 ST90V/Carry Van Engine swap

Greetings.

After reading every single article I could ever find related to swopping engines into a ST90V and having already successfully done the F10A conversion from the stock F8A engine, and numerous issues recently with starters and carbs and lack of parts or expertise on these I decided to venture into the unknown and do an engine swap of my own.

Locally Suzuki Engines from the breakers/importers are mostly J20A and M13A Jimny motors, with the only F6A I have ever seen for sale going for an absolute arm and a leg with no ECU or gearbox, I stuck around and found a Swift K12B engine going for a song from a local well known importer.

I see another member did a swop with a K10A Turbo from a Suzuki Alto which led me to believe this would be a walk in the park.

Right now I got the engine mounted in the st90v on the right hand side 'stock' bracket - only change there was to drill the holes bigger to accommodate the stock bolts on the K12B engine.

I have the intake manifold of currently pending modification since it completely obstructs and prevents me from actually performing this swop.

I am going to be removing the factory Catalytic Convertor/ Exchaust manifold in a few moments since it is completely obstructing me from mounting the engine on the left hand side using the stock brackets.

So, what have I done so far?

1. Picked up a custom made Flywheel today - Made for 2 purposes, firstly to accommodate the change in bolt patterns from the F10/F8 motors to the K12B as well as hopefully allowing me to use the starter which on this motor is on the engine side - This engine had an auto box on it previously, ) not sure if the manual also works like this). To allow for the starter the new flywheel has the ring gear on the engine side, the modifications to allow for the smaller circumference pending ( It has to move just short of 1cm closer to work so I am not foreseeing any issues there ). Mounting the F8A/F10A 2WD RWD Gearbox to a mounting plate which I am busy cutting/drilling as I am moving forward with the fitting of the engine.

2. I had to order an ECU on EBAY from the UK since I can't buy a K12B ECU matching my model locally, mine uses the 33920-51k1/k2 type ECU, not the newer silver unit with the 2 identical 56pin connectors, ETA is July 3rd.

3. Intake Manifold removed - evaluating options on how to work around this, the way the engine is mounted just does not allow the factory intake to be used as is. Seems like cutting it myself might be the cheaper option right now, manufacturing something will cost a lot more than replacing the one I got incase I mess it up entirely.

4. Exchaust Manifold - Removing the factory unit this evening since it prevents me from using the factory mountings which it seems that I will be able to use, not sure why the engine swop on the Alto required new brackets.

5. Purchased a drive by wire accelerator pedal to go with what the engine and ECU was made for.

I will post some pictures soon, I have a whole whack of them so far, from looking at the pictures this swap seems impossible, however after looking at the exchaust manifold this evening this swap seems as close to a direct bolt on as I could ever have asked for - so I made a custom flywheel - the price of the engine was that good that the flywheel would be free when compared to another similar engine purchased locally so got lucky there, my first choice was the alto 1000cc engine.

Any tips or tricks on the ECU would be appreciated, that is my biggest unknown at this point, I have a manual and I have read almost everything I could find about this ecu and suzuk ecu's in general etc, but it is something I have never even touched in my entire life so it is completely new territory to me despite being in IT for a living :-)

Need to get back to work on the van but will post some pictures soon.

Attached is a picture of the image that kept me up at night until today...
Attached Thumbnails
Never before attempted 1985 ST90V/Carry Van Engine swap-scary.jpg  
toxicehc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-26-2017, 11:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Johannesburg South Africa
Posts: 6
Gallery: 0
toxicehc is on a distinguished road
Default Week2

So I am going to jump right in:

Custom Flywheel received and fitted, had to make a shim for the flywheel bearing since the ST90 Gearbox has a much thinner rod and there are no bearing in that outer diameter with an inner diameter of 10mm, that took me quite some time but as of this morning it is in and ready to go.

On the exhaust manifold I managed to trip the final bolt and it's not moving at all, it's also in the most impossible place to reach so short of dropping the motor again I am not getting in there right now, which I have abandoned in the interim.

What I did discover however is that the left side of the engine mountings do not line up with the right hand side as it does on the F8/F10 motors so I am manufacturing a bracket for that side.

But first, since the flywheel is on I am putting the gearbox back on - so it sits exactly like it did on the F8/F10 motor so I can get my angle right, I am working alone using a winch and ratchet straps with the van standing 1meter in the air on 100x50x3m steel rectangular bars.

The gearbox holes unlike the K10A does not line up at all, they are out by about 1cm on the start motor part, not sure about the rest, I have resorted to cutting an adapter plate to ensure I get the best possible secure fitting, I am cutting that as soon as I stop typing here.

For the engine manifold I am braving it into the unknown and have made a mould of the engine side using quick drying concrete, I taped up the manifold itself and covered it with whatever I could find to ensure that I will be able to extract it from the mould when done, that should be more than dry by now, will be extracting that also quick this morning, then attempting to make a 45 degree adapter for the intake manifold to fit into the space provided.

Again apologies for the lack of photos at this point, I am capturing all important parts as I go along just never find myself in front of my laptop with enough time to sort, separate and upload but I promise I will as soon as things calm down a little.

Overall progress/Review:

Busy mounting gearbox onto engine - then finalising engine brackets.
Fuel Pump and Regulator - pending inbound, should be secured today or tomorrow.
Ecu - Delayed somewhere in the UK since the 22nd, merely 3 days after posting - no clue what is going on there asked the seller to follow up for me.
Plumbing - still very much outstanding - need to plumb fuel pump and regulator as well as the cooling lines in the front.
Wiring/Electrics - Still dreading this one but will hopefully be able to shift my attention over to this matter.

Ok, that was my quick update for week2, hopefully posting the pictures thus far soon!
toxicehc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-25-2017, 05:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Johannesburg South Africa
Posts: 6
Gallery: 0
toxicehc is on a distinguished road
Default Months Later

Hello to anyone reading this.

How time flies, I am happy to report that I am busy finalising this upgrade and was able to crank the motor fully mounted for the very first time two days ago.

Where to start, I suppose lets talk to the item that took me all this time - mounting this engine in the car. I honestly will pay someone for this next time, I have no previous experience doing any of this and am limited to welding using an arc welder and have opted for 5mm mild steel 50mm angle iron to manufacture the passenger side bracket.

I first tried building the mountings around the catalytic convertor but abandoned after 5 attempts and opted to modify the exhaust instead, once removed I was able to produce a suiteabe bracket. Lesson Learnt -> I ended up supporting the engine from underneath using pieces of the angle iron which both held it up as well as maintaining the 45 degree angle and staying in line with the gearbox which is mounted slightly off centre towards the driver side of the vehicle. Once I was in this place most of the effort and issues I had previously disappeared.

I opted to keep the stock intake manifold as after researching the potential of me making my own I found that it's really better left to the engineers at Suzuki - I saw a video on youtube about doing these types of engines swaps and they said unless you are opening up the engine and doing things with the pistons etc you are really just better off keeping it as it is for maximum efficiency and performance. Now This would then pose my biggest issue - the intake manifold would then stick out in the centre between my seats by a few centimeters - I found about 1cm I could remove from the spacer that sits between the intake manifold and the engine which provided some relief. In the end I ended up cutting a 10cm opening in the support beam that runs across the back of the seating area and welded a new 38mm square bar on top of that, thus 'raising the bar' by 38mm in a manor of speaking. This seems fine inside the car, I am a little concerned about my ground clearance right now, I will be looking into options to raise the sump from the ground a little. I found a car in China called a big dipper which is a variant made under licence by changchan or something which has a k12b engine mounted at this angle so it has the similar intake to the carry truck that is being sold by Suzuki currently - in either k21B or k14b variants, I am yet to locate an intake and exhaust manifold and sump from one of these for sale, until then I will keep it as it is and keep looking and considering my options.

FUEL PUMP:
Not sure if I went over this before, I put a generic intake pump hooked up to a TOLMEI pressure regulator the same way that everyone on youtube does it basically nothing fancy here, using a new full length hose to feed the pressure regulartor which I put right at the injector rail and then using the stock return hoses.

ECU:
Wow this was a mission. I also scored a fat luck on this one.
So I got a 2009 K12B JDM SPEC Engine, and I was looking at ECU's, my potential matches were
2009 K12B Suzuki Swift Europe Model.
2009 Vauxhall Agila 1.2 - Made in Poland in the Suzuki factory
2009 JDM Suzuki Swift - NO luck on this one at all no documentation anywhere.

I purchased a swift ecu from a guy on ebay who managed to lose it and then refunded me and then I scored big time someone advertise a agila ECU for half of what I was going to pay for the swift ECU, so grabbed it on the spot.

I could not get wiring info from Vauxhall in the UK from their call centre and their dealerships refused to help me so I purchased a workshop manual from some online place for 10 Pounds. it came as a virtual pc thing I have to run on my machine.

So I sat down and stripped the wiring loom to now match up my wiring with this ecu on one faitfull day and wire by wire I started checking it, and to my surprise and amazement the JDM SPEC is an exact match to the AGILA! With Exception of 1 Wire which I had to move - which is accommodated by a blank hole in the plug and not a closed hole.

I wired up my accelerator pedal which I purchased from a scrap yard from a 2015 Suzuki Swift K12B model, and I wired a positive feed from the FAN Relay on the fuse box which came with the motor to my radiator fan.

then the temperature gauge sensor on the engine is not used by the ECU at all, it goes to the instrument cluster so I just plugged my temp gauge wire straight in threre.

The charge light from the alternator also directly to my wire from my previous factory setup.

Then start and ignition is such a breeze its a joke, the BCM Module triggers both of those one of which is fed from a fuse called F20 - so I literally connected my ignition on wire to the black and white cables which run via connector 3 and 4 on the X100 connector - which is a big white plug inside the fuse box that comes with the engine.

The starter signal feeds the trigger side of the starter relay so I just connected my wire to that wire.

I then stripped out anything that wasn't connected to anything having also checked that the start and ignition wires are following the correct routes beyond my enty points.

my loom came with the battery terminal fuse box also which I wired directly into a positive battery feed source.

I had to wire my odb2 connection to the X1 connector serial data cables and not the x2 connector I am yet to test if this even works.

So two days ago I switched it on and immediately the pump starts pumping and I got some sounds from the intake manifold, if I press the pedal things open and close so happiness, turn the key starter turns - but sounded horrible, seems I managed to not skim enough to get to the 1cm lower that the teeth on the newly manufactured flywheel sits, so I am busy sorting that out at the moment.

So I mounted the ECU behind the driver under the floor on the outside of the vehicle where all my fuel hoses and things come together so it's nice and snug flish to the floor of the inside bacally, I have the original airbox in play right now - I am mounting it in place of my spare wheel due to its excessive size, I will play with this a little once I am off the blocks and see what intake works with the engine and ecu setup for now sticking to what the Suzuki engineers did.

I am going to try to mount my fuse box underneath the driver seat so the loom will be nicely and snugly almost 'like it was meant to be there' fit to the car-> loom runs from the left starting with the cat sensors and my feed to the actual car -> across the engine taking in injectors and air sensors and such moving across to the starter and alternator and more sensors then across to the chassis where the fuse box splits out to the front and the ecu connectors and the power feed then moves towards the back.

If I left anything out please do ask I am more than happy to answer, I have pictures I will upload as soon as I get the time, right now still trying to finish this and everything else I have going on.

But very excited I should be driving it at least on a test drive today or tomorrow still...
toxicehc is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Other Suzuki Models > Suzuki Carry & Every Forum

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.