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Old 08-15-2006, 01:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Question thermostatically controlled fan (electric)

Hello Kei trucks and vans lovers!

How many minutes, on the average after starting the engine does your thermostatically controlled fan (electric) operate? My truck has a front mounted radiator tank and the fan doesn't have the thermostatic switch of any kind, mentioned in some threads. The electric fan instantly fires up when i turn on the ignition. I'll use the input from you guys as the basis for the power-on delay for the fan.
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Old 08-15-2006, 02:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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I think ganun talaga set up ng vehicles nyo dahil yung fan hindi naka-mount sa engine kaya tuloy-tuloy ang andar. (But that's my guess)
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Old 08-15-2006, 06:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Ok, guys, maybe I can enlighten you on this one.

ALL liquid cooled motor vehicles come from the factory with a thermostat. The thermostat works as a temperature valve in the cooling system. The thermostat stops circulation until the engine reaches optimum operating temperature of 180 deg farenheight, or about 75 celsius. From there, as the engine increases in temperature, the thermostat opens to allow more circulation. As the engine cools, it closes to shut off circulation.

ALL manufacturers agree that an engine runs longer and much more efficiently at these temps, so they try to make them run there all the time. That is the job of the thermostat, to get it to that temp fast and keep it there. (In cold climates, a higher temp thermostat can be installed to make the cab heater work better, something you don't need to know in the Philippines!) The thermostat is always located somewhere in between the radiator and the head in the upper hose passage, but usually inside the upper hose housing which bolts to the head.

Now then, the radiator cools the circulating liquid as the thermostat allows circulation. It does so by passing the liquid through the inside of many fins, which are cooled by air passing around the outside of the fins. When a vehicle is moving, air is always passing through the outside of the fins, cooling them. When a vehicle is not moving, or is moving slowly, a fan must be used to blow air across the fins to cool them. In the old days, a fan was always added as part of the belt system.

Vehicles with electric fan add a thermostatically controlled switch to the radiator, which in effect turns the fan on when the radiator reaches a certain temperature, normally near 210 deg farenheight. The cooling fan at this point is used only when the engine is at maximum recommended temp. (An emergency device, if you will) This cools the radiator, which in turn cools the engine, as by this time the thermostat is wide open.

Now, enter the Philippines, where they have their own ideas that do not coincide with reality or the rest of the world. The first thing to go is the thermostat, second the fan switch. In their minds they want the vehicle to run as cool as possible, so they remove the thermostat and by-pass the fan switch. They don't know about efficiency or why it doesn't run like it should. They don't know that the choke is dependent upon the thermostat and the engine reaching operating temp. so that it can open. They don't know that by removing the thermostat and by by-passing the radiator thermo switch that then the choke will be very slow to open, and may not open at all, causing the vehicle to not only run much too cool for optimum operation, but will also cause it to run rich and burn WAY too much fuel! In all of these vehicles I've worked on, I have found only ONE thermostat! MOST have the radiator thermo switch by-passed. This causes a multitude of problems which they don't understand at all.

Cure? Make sure your electric thermo fan switch is working properly. It should come on just before the engine overheats, not before. Make sure your ride has a thermostat, the engine should warm up fast, reaching about the center of the temp gauge within 5 minutes, and staying near there always.

Here? Well, good luck. Nobody sells thermostats because the general population here won't buy them. (They're not needed, right?) In the US, ANY auto parts store would have 3 or more different heat ranges of thermostats to sell you. Almost NOBODY would by-pass a radiator thermo switch. In the parts stores I have walked into here, nobody would know what a thermo fan switch was, and few would know what a thermostat was.

It is not my intention to cut down the Philippines or it's people, but in many ways things are a hundred years behind the times here.

I will be more than happy to help anybody here who wants any information I may be able to provide.

Larry in Dumaguete
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Old 08-16-2006, 02:45 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Some mechanics wants a easy way out and don't want to think. I really want to have my thermostat install but as you said the parts are not readily available. To add on, i even want my automatic choke install.

By the way, since most suzuki vans & pick-ups are imported from Japan. Is the thermostat from a cold country work in the tropics? Norkis sell their Legacy which is an original Mira and if they still retain the thermostat, does their thermostat the same with our van considering they have the same 660 cc engine?

Now if have a seller and majority of us suzuki owners are ordering, then we can order and we might have a discount pa! A club is suitable to this kind of scenario.

What you think?
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Old 08-16-2006, 03:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Cool!...thanks a lot Larry for the very informative discussion...I have learned a lot. You indeed know your trade. I hope we could change the mindset of Filipino auto mechanics regarding this. Without the proper knowledge of things, we might jump into wrong conclusions like making the engine run as cool as possible. I hope I could find a mechanic who works the same way as you do. By the way, based on your detailed discussion, it seems that you're more than an auto mechanic, as stated in your intro when you joined the forum. You sound more like a writer from a 4wheeler magazine.

I have been to dumaguete last 2004. If given the chance to go back to that place, I'll look for Larry, the guru of Suzuki mini trucks/vans. hehe.

I am currently running 14-15 km/L on my Carry pickup. For sure these figures would improve if my ride employs a thermostat and thermo switch. Hmmm...where can i secure them?

I have several questions sir:
1. What type of motor oil would you recommend for these Zookis?
2. The water in my radiator tank doesn't appear greenish, I believe no coolant was added to it. Should i drain everything and follow the 50-50 water-coolant ratio? (here we go again, trying to run the engine as cool as possible). Btw, i am after the rust-busting property of the additive.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well, to be honest, I did leave a few things out of my resume.

Everyone has their own personal preference for oil. Something I have noticed here though, more emphasis is put on whether or not the oil is for gas or diesel than it is on viscosity or specifications. Diesel engines have more requirements than gasoline engines, so diesel oil usually meets all requirements for a gasoline engine. Read the labels, SF, SE, CC, etc. Personally I use a 20W50 non detergent oil in liquid cooled engines. I don't specify a brand. Almost all air cooled engine manufactureres recommend a straight grade oil. This is because the oil temp is generally higher in air cooled engines, and straight grade oil dose not break down as fast as multi grade oil. Briggs and Stratton are test freaks, they run more tests than general motors. They ran a test using various grades of oil in their air cooled engines. They used 100 engines, put 10W30 in 50, and straight 30W in the other 50. After 1000 hours under heavy load, the engines using multi grade oil were all using a tablespoon or more per hour. The engines using 30W were using less than half a teaspoon. Quite a difference. As my father used to say though, ANY clean oil is better than ANY dirty oil!

Coolant is more important than anyone here seems to realize. Coolant has not only rust and corrosion protection, it also has lubrication for the water pump and seals. It coats the inside of hoses protecting them. Mixed 50/50 with clean water, it boils at a temperature higher than water, and freezes at a temperature lower than water. However, do not exceed the 50/50 recommended mix. Strange stuff, coolant. For some reason if you exceed the 50% mark the protection properties decrease! I would recommend you flush your system thoroughly and refill with 50/50 mix.

Hope this helps!

Larry.
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thermostats all work the same way. They open when heated, and close when cool. The only difference is physical size and the temperature at which they open. The temp is usually stamped on the thermostat, 180 F., or 82 C, is the standard thermostat most manufacturers use. A higher temp can be installed in cold climate to make the heater work better, and a slightly cooler one (160 F.) can be installed in hotter climate to make the engine run a little cooler. I would not recommend putting one hotter than 180 F. (82 C.) in a vehicle in this climate.

I would say that chances are very good the thermostat out of the legacy will fit your van. Just look at the size, does it fit the hole? If so, it'll work just fine. Be sure to install the thermostat with the spring toward the inside of the engine.

I have some connections, I may be able to order thermostats if I order a quantity of them. I'll look into it when I get some time.

Larry.
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Old 08-16-2006, 05:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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wow nice, now i know where to get the thermostatic switch for the radiator fan. (i by passed it my self when it broke down, 3 weeks ago)
larry your in dumaguete right? how much do you think it would cost for the thermostatic switch???
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Old 08-16-2006, 06:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Where did you find a thermostatic switch? My guess is it shouldn't cost more than about P500, finding them may be the problem. Are you confusing thermostat with thermo switch? The thermostat is a valve that shuts off water circulation, the thermo swtch is a temp controlled electric switch that turns the fan on and off.
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Old 08-16-2006, 06:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Yah I know, i'm refering to the the switch that shorts the circuit for the fan.
I just noticed about 3 weeks ago that my temp went all the way up so i turned off the engine. And when the engine was cold enough for me to open the radiator, i did and the and water/coolant was almost gone, even on the reservoir. So i tried to diagnose it by first see if the fan works, I tried to supply 12V, and it did turn. next is the thermostatic switch, I unplugged the socket and tried to short the only 2 female socket on that wire. and the fan turns when power is supplied to the engine (not on ignition, just on), w/c means taht the circuit is good. so I tried to fill the radiator w/ water, and replugged the socket for the thermostatic switch and tried to run the engine for about 3 mins. it reached the working temp about that time but the fan did not turn. w/c brings me to a conclusion that the the switch is not working. please correct me if im wrong...
also the thermostatic switch is just a simple switch? its just that its controlled by heat. is that right?

the thermostatic switch that i'm reffering to is the one in the bottom part of the radiator.

Last edited by blue; 08-16-2006 at 06:51 PM.
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