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Old 07-19-2017, 03:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!

Hi Team,

I've just got a new to me 2004 Alto 1.1 GL, this is my first Suzuki and my first impressions are cheap and cheerful, it tramlines a little but for city driving and not worrying too much about the body work from car park dings and general stone chips its great.

It has a few problems. Can anyone help with getting them fixed?

1. When the engine is warm the idle hunts from 1700rpm to 1200 and back again. Eventually settling at 1700. I do not think this is the Lambda sensor as it looks like the reading oscillates between 0.9 and 0.1v. the intake air temp sensor seems to work, and the TAP is at 16.5degrees when at idle.
- so why does it hunt, and why is the idle so fast? There are no error messages on the computer.

2. the engine whines when in neutral with the clutch pedal not depressed, when its depressed the noise goes away. I'm thinking transmission bearings? Gearbox out job, does anyone refurb or sell rebuild kits? or am I chasing the wrong item?

3. it needs a parcel shelf, anyone got one?

4. It also needs a new aerial as the old one was broken. I managed to get it working by shortening it and putting it back in but the signal is a bit weak.


Thanks!
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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TPS out of adjustment.. or coolant temp probe reading low.

... Philip
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Old 07-20-2017, 09:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquanaut20 View Post
TPS out of adjustment.. or coolant temp probe reading low.

... Philip
Thanks Philip,
do we have a guide for that the TPS should read at idle? is 16.5deg too much?
When looking at the signal it goes from 16.5 at closed to 76 at wide open.

Does anyone know where to get a coolant temp probe from if I need one? it looks like EuroCarParts do not do them.
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2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-throttle-closed-fully-open.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Some more info.

The Coolant sensor seems to be working via odbi, it says the coolant is approx. 90deg, going above that and I can hear the fan kick in. The dashboard doesn't register nearly this high, barely getting off the lowest mark.

With the TPS at 16.5, I think that is not the problem? it doesn't alter at idle.

I disconnected the MAP, started the engine and it was at 1bar, blocking the vac tube it dropped to 0.27. Doing this the revs went from 3000 to 1700. when the car idles fast normally it is at 0.27 bar.

could this point to a faulty map?

the short term fuel trim seems to be within 4%
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.J.S View Post
Some more info.

The Coolant sensor seems to be working via odbi, it says the coolant is approx. 90deg, going above that and I can hear the fan kick in. The dashboard doesn't register nearly this high, barely getting off the lowest mark.

With the TPS at 16.5, I think that is not the problem? it doesn't alter at idle.

I disconnected the MAP, started the engine and it was at 1bar, blocking the vac tube it dropped to 0.27. Doing this the revs went from 3000 to 1700. when the car idles fast normally it is at 0.27 bar.

could this point to a faulty map?

the short term fuel trim seems to be within 4%
MAP graph attached
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2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-rpm-map.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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some more graphs!
Attached Thumbnails
2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-fuel-trim-idle.jpg   2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-fuel-trim.jpg   2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-map-driving-back-forth-low-speed.jpg   2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-map-idling.jpg   2004 1.1 Alto, some questions!-rpm-map.jpg  

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Old 07-20-2017, 03:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You can start here:

time to connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER.

COLD engine, (KOEO)
AIT (air temp)and ECT(coolant temp) must be with in 2% of ambient temperature, verified with IR gun.
TPS, 0% at stop and rise smooth and steady as throttle is advanced
MAF, 0% with no air flow
Battery, 12.6vdc, fully charged.

Start engine.
ECT, must start to rise and attain and hold 180* at idle and 2000rpm
CL (ECU) must maintain at idle and 2000rpm
MAF, small reading at idle and rise steadily as throttle advances.
O2, (B1S1, precat), must start actively switching with no lean/rich bias...
LTFT, (long term fuel trim), close to 0%, +/-2 is allowable, if more, time to investigate fuel delivery/illegal air
Vacuum, at unregulated manifold port, 19-21”hg..with a dead steady needle, investigate jitter or bounce.


... Philip
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquanaut20 View Post
You can start here:

time to connect a LIVE DATA SCANNER.

COLD engine, (KOEO)
AIT (air temp)and ECT(coolant temp) must be with in 2% of ambient temperature, verified with IR gun.
TPS, 0% at stop and rise smooth and steady as throttle is advanced
MAF, 0% with no air flow
Battery, 12.6vdc, fully charged.

Start engine.
ECT, must start to rise and attain and hold 180* at idle and 2000rpm
CL (ECU) must maintain at idle and 2000rpm
MAF, small reading at idle and rise steadily as throttle advances.
O2, (B1S1, precat), must start actively switching with no lean/rich bias...
LTFT, (long term fuel trim), close to 0%, +/-2 is allowable, if more, time to investigate fuel delivery/illegal air
Vacuum, at unregulated manifold port, 19-21”hg..with a dead steady needle, investigate jitter or bounce.


... Philip
Thanks Philip,

I've printed this out and will try to have ago this weekend. The weather here is looking pretty bad so my time might be limited.

I'm assuming the CL is closed loop - so the O2 sensor is warm enough and in play.


I appreciate the help.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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One thing I noticed on the way home tonight, when the engine is cold and just started the idle speed is 1000 rpm, putting a load on the engine then going back to idle it returned to 1000rpm then lost revs and stalled it did this for the first minute or so. Then went back to the fast hunting idle.
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the help here. Just coming back with an update. I replaced the map sensor and it so far has fixed the hunting idle.

I think next in going to replace the front lower radiator mount as it's rusty and then replace the thermostat. I'm getting to know this little car quite well.?
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