Suzuki Forums banner

beat a 454 swap 65 licon Cont.

5K views 42 replies 13 participants last post by  jurupa 
#1 ·
was comming home from work and decided to take the strip home just to see what was up. herd of a accident and wanted to see it and it lincon that sounded mean as hell pulled put of a mcdonalds parking lot i ingore him and he catches me about few hundered yards down. so i kinda speed up not sounding my engine from 40 to 44 to show if he wants some?? well he pulls up next to me and i hear him hit it right after i do. thing was so loud i thought my ears were gona break. :eek:


what amazed me i was smacking him down . its all power to weight guess.

talked to the guy about it. nice car. he has a freind with a 1967 2+2 mustang with 120k miles 289(stock) expect for a exhaust. im gona run him next week.
 
#5 ·
i owned a 66 oldmobile dynamic 88 coupe. it was as big as a continental. it had a 425 big block called "the super rocket" engine. it came out of the factory with almost the same Hp as its cubic inches. other guys would try and race me such as: civic Si, cavalier z24's, mustang fox bodies, etc. nothing came close to keeping up with me! there is no way on gods green earth that your reno/ forenza even gives my olds or that lincoln a run worth bragging about. please stop guys! its getting rediculous what you think these cars are capable stock, with maybe some bolt ons! just stop! your not beating any V8!
 
#6 ·
Well there is no way you would beat that 67 goat I had, and it was stock..
Yesterday my daughter got froggy in her reno coming back from the dealer after getting her paint fixed (new car but had a nasty gouge in it. Fixed it under paint warranty) We are getting on 71 south and I hear my phone beep and hear "Catch Me"..Silly girl..we were doing all of 10mph and she hits it..now I have a 2000 passat and its chipped (1bar boost). When I went to 2nd I was about to rub that new paint off her bumper..3rd gear and pass her and when I grabbed 4th im at 105 mph and she is about 50 yds behind me and the distance is rapidly increasing like she is standing still. She swears she held it to the floor and was at 80 when she merged onto 71 ( I merged at 90 ) Needless to say the reno aint no rocket ship, my passat is quick but would have got "ate up" by that goat I once owned.
 
#7 ·
IncognitoSpec said:
It may be possible, 65 were boats coming in at close to 5500lbs not sure thou, Good run
Judging by the calculators on this site

Giving the Linc 5500 lbs and 350 HP comes in at 15.018 secs (1/4 mile) at 93.502 mph

Giving the Reno 2700 lbs and 140 HP (Int. Exh. Pulley) comes in at 15.821 secs at 87.925 mph



It's not an impossibility that he beat the Linc. Improbable, yes, impossible, no. Rhyno, you have to stop reading this board. You're going to have an aneurysm.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Upon further googling, seems the original 65 Linc had a 430 that put out 320hp and weighed 5700.

Entering these new numbers, and you get 15.505 secs at 90.048 mph

Puts the two REAL close....

Now if indeed the car had a 454 swap and was pumping out 500hp, then there was no chance. But against an original 65 Linc with the 430? It's a .3 second difference.

So much for the almighty V8........
 
#9 ·
masterbiscuit said:
Upon further googling, seems the original 65 Linc had a 430 that put out 320hp and weighed 5700.

Entering these new numbers, and you get 15.505 secs at 90.048 mph

Puts the two REAL close....

Now if indeed the car had a 454 swap and was pumping out 500hp, then there was no chance. But against an original 65 Linc with the 430? It's a .3 second difference.

So much for the almighty V8........
:eek: Once again, the V8 is used in a realy heavy car. Amazing how that happens.
 
#10 ·
you guys are really crazy you know that? your reno is not a 15 sec car..lol! someone show me slips from the track with there reno! my friends svt focus was stock running low 15's.. and your talkin 170 or more HP 6 speed! i never wanted to do this but here it is... "sigh"... you praise your cars that are cheap no name garbage! yes i like the renos styling, but its still a fukin suzuki guys! you will not beat a single v8 with a stock reno! you dont seem to read what i wrote my oldsmobile was HUGE! i was beating cav z24's, civic SI's, and plenty of other higher end stock sporty tuners. all of these cars which would dust your dam suzukis i beat with ease! im 25 years old, im not bragging about beating them, they started the races and i just wound up being the winner.. im not lookin for bragging rights here! you guys are really suffering from the delusions that your suzuki is great cause its gearing! news flash, unless the car has restrictors on it, all newer model cars are geared roughly about the same. what makes you think that suzuki is the only car in the compact car class to have good gearing... you think, mitsu,dodge,nissan, etc, dont gear there cars as good if not better then a suzuki? you guys seriously gotta see where im coming from, im not tryin to put your cars down, but instead bring you back to the cold hard harsh reality that suzuki is not some diamond in the rough care maker. they are affordable, stylish, and well equipped for under 13,500 for base! no more guys this site is really getting rediculous!
 
#11 ·
masterbiscuit said:
Upon further googling, seems the original 65 Linc had a 430 that put out 320hp and weighed 5700.

The 430 in³ (7.0 L) engine was produced from 1958 through 1965. It was also used in Ford Thunderbirds and was commonly referred to as the "Bulldozer" of the MEL series engines. The Super Marauder used three two-barrel carburetors. The 430 was bored to 4.30 in (109.2 mm) (similar to the 383) and shared the 3.7 in (94 mm) stroke of the 410.

The compression ratio started at 10.5:1 for 365, 375, and 400 hp (272, 280, and 298 kW), but was reduced to 10.0:1 in less than a year. These 1959 engines produced 345-350 hp (257 to 261 kW), but power was down to 315 hp (235 kW) for 1960.

New pistons and a four-barrel carburetor were added for 1963. 10.1:1 compression brought output back to 345 hp (257 kW).
 
#12 ·
rhyno said:
you guys are really crazy you know that? your reno is not a 15 sec car..lol! someone show me slips from the track with there reno! my friends svt focus was stock running low 15's.. and your talkin 170 or more HP 6 speed! i never wanted to do this but here it is... "sigh"... you praise your cars that are cheap no name garbage! yes i like the renos styling, but its still a fukin suzuki guys! you will not beat a single v8 with a stock reno! you dont seem to read what i wrote my oldsmobile was HUGE! i was beating cav z24's, civic SI's, and plenty of other higher end stock sporty tuners. all of these cars which would dust your dam suzukis i beat with ease! im 25 years old, im not bragging about beating them, they started the races and i just wound up being the winner.. im not lookin for bragging rights here! you guys are really suffering from the delusions that your suzuki is great cause its gearing! news flash, unless the car has restrictors on it, all newer model cars are geared roughly about the same. what makes you think that suzuki is the only car in the compact car class to have good gearing... you think, mitsu,dodge,nissan, etc, dont gear there cars as good if not better then a suzuki? you guys seriously gotta see where im coming from, im not tryin to put your cars down, but instead bring you back to the cold hard harsh reality that suzuki is not some diamond in the rough care maker. they are affordable, stylish, and well equipped for under 13,500 for base! no more guys this site is really getting rediculous!
Stock? Whats that mean, oh yeah. Sorry, not many stock ones here. If its so rediculous, why even bother. You clame BS, and most would. The problems is, you've claimed BS on one or two peopl here that woant lie. Sorry, after just replacing the UD and the Air Intake, I'm sure these guys are for real. When you get'yer reno, go talk to Kinky, he set you up good. You see the trueth
 
#13 ·
i dont get why this rhyno guy keeps posting in here. it seems that all he wants to do is create drama. it is true that a lot of people like to make shit up, but as from what i've seen, these guys know what they're talking about.

rhyno, have you even ridden in a reno/forenza? i'll admit that my car isn't a rocket, but it definitely isn't slow. my friend has a '00 Civic with V-tec, header, high flow cat, 2 1/4 cat-back to a glass pack, CAI, and dropped 2-3". it is definitely not a slow car. when i first got my car, he drove me over to his place one night cuz i was drunk off my ass and he was surprised at how much it "scoots."

it isnt all about gearing or power or torque or weight. it is a combination of everything. the suspension gets rid of the rolling(which is terrible on our stock cars) and puts more momentum into the wheels. the intake, exhaust, and pulley brings up the power/torque. the pulley also increases the throttle response.

you can take a stock car with 250hp stock and lose to a car with 200hp that is modded up from, lets say, our 125hp stock, especially if the car with 250 is an automatic.

there is a TON of factors that come in when it comes to drag racing. traction, weight, suspension, power, torque, aerodynamics, gearing, and even the drivers themselves.

don't come in here saying that everyone on this forum is full of BS. you weren't there to see it. the people stating the kills aren't showing proof either. what do you want? a photo of a slip at a race track? if i got a hold of a slip, i could fairly easily doctor it to make it look like my dad's 96 suburban pulls 9 secs in the quarter. i don't even know how to use photoshop. i could do it with windows paint, and so could anybody else that has the time and wants to spend the effort.

if you don't want to believe what people say, then don't. if you want to call BS on them, give us numbers that say "hey, that'd be damn near impossible."

i don't care what kind of car you have now or what kind of cars you've had in the past. you don't seem to know as much as the other guys in this forum. they're throwing numbers at you to show you that it could be possible.

maybe the lincon was running the low grade fuel and the reno was running the high grade stuff with octane booster to get extra hp. you don't know all the details of either one of the cars.
 
#14 · (Edited)
tallkid said:
don't come in here saying that everyone on this forum is full of BS. you weren't there to see it. the people stating the kills aren't showing proof either. what do you want? a photo of a slip at a race track? if i got a hold of a slip, i could fairly easily doctor it to make it look like my dad's 96 suburban pulls 9 secs in the quarter. i don't even know how to use photoshop. i could do it with windows paint, and so could anybody else that has the time and wants to spend the effort.
Not like the Turbo vans that pull 12 second 1/4 miles *whistels* THes guys usaly just dump a couple K in theres.
Trust me, in Photoshop, I could make it look like he used warp engines, including the picture of the 'Burban to prove it. *Green skinned alien chick optional!

The reno will not benifit from a higher octaine. The question in, Has AK doesn the normal mods, like the Pully, CAI, or Cat Back.
His profile does say hehas a 2.25 cat back and a short ram intake. That adds up to 15 HP, but is probably 10


*Alien chick extra
 
#15 · (Edited)
Zipper said:
Not like the Turbo vans that pull 12 second 1/4 miles *whistels* THes guys usaly just dump a couple K in theres.
Trust me, in Photoshop, I could make it look like he used warp engines, including the picture of the 'Burban to prove it. *Green skinned alien chick optional!

The reno will not benifit from a higher octaine. The question in, Has AK doesn the normal mods, like the Pully, CAI, or Cat Back.
His profile does say hehas a 2.25 cat back and a short ram intake. That adds up to 15 HP, but is probably 10


*Alien chick extra

Guys, this guy is clearly a troll and should be treated as such. Don't feed the trolls...lol

AK is probably running about 15-20 HP over stock. Remember, he has much cooler air up there, so that 10-15 becomes 15-20. NOTHING we say.....NOTHING is going to stop this guy rhyno from posting crap.

Best way to handle him is to ignore him and let him bury himself with his attitude. He'll get banned soon enough for not keeping it civil.

Oh and BTW, our cars can pull 15.6 in the 1/4. The formula is right there. I didn't make it up dude. Anyone who doesn't agree with that site should e-mail the scientists that created those formulas and yell at them.

*snip*
 
#16 ·
itschuck said:
The 430 in³ (7.0 L) engine was produced from 1958 through 1965. It was also used in Ford Thunderbirds and was commonly referred to as the "Bulldozer" of the MEL series engines. The Super Marauder used three two-barrel carburetors. The 430 was bored to 4.30 in (109.2 mm) (similar to the 383) and shared the 3.7 in (94 mm) stroke of the 410.

The compression ratio started at 10.5:1 for 365, 375, and 400 hp (272, 280, and 298 kW), but was reduced to 10.0:1 in less than a year. These 1959 engines produced 345-350 hp (257 to 261 kW), but power was down to 315 hp (235 kW) for 1960.

New pistons and a four-barrel carburetor were added for 1963. 10.1:1 compression brought output back to 345 hp (257 kW).
5700 lbs at 345 hp = 15.211

Still about a 1/2 second difference. That could be decided on launch alone.

Let's not forget that with a 5700 lb car he's probably going to spin the wheels a bit. Advantage - Reno in that case.
 
#17 ·
AkForenza907 said:
well he pulls up next to me and i hear him hit it right after i do. thing was so loud i thought my ears were gona break. :eek:

Well the lincoln was a very quite ride, so if the ears were gona break I would say he had at least a set of headers,unless the lincoln was a total piece of crap and needed an exhaust.
So if he had a header add 20hp
Now the thread did say a 454..lot of work to stick a chevy in a ford but it can be done..lil history on chevy big blocks..

Chevy Production Big Blocks

The Chevy big block was introduced in 1965 with a 396 cid Mark IV engine developed from the 1963 Datona mystery engine. The engine was basically developed as an answer to the highly successful GTO with its 389 cid engine introduced in 1964. The 396 was first offered in the Chevelle at 375 HP, in the full size Chevy as 325 and 425 HP versions and in the Corvette with up to 425 HP. In 1966 the 396 was bored out to 4.250" producing a 427 cid engine. The 427 was offered in the 1967 Impala SS rated at 385 HP and in the Corvette it was first offered in 1966 and was uprated with 3-2 bbl carburetors to 435 HP for 1967.

In 1967 the L88 427 was also provided in approximately 20 Corvettes with an advertised HP of 430 but actually producing in excess of 550 HP. The L88 required minimum 95 octane gas to avoid possible damage to the engine and was meant to be strictly for racing. 1970 saw introduction of a stroked 427 resulting in a 454 cid engine. The 454 was offered in the 1970 Impala, Chevelle SS, El Camino SS and Monte Carlo SS in a 360 HP version and in the Chevelle and El Camino SS in a 450 HP version. The 1970 Corvette LS-6 was offered with the 390 HP 454 cid engine. 1970 also ushered in the 402 cid engine which was also known as the 396 in some Chevys and the big block 400 in others. In the 1970 Camaro SS, Chevelle SS and Nova SS the 402 cid engine with 375 HP was known as the 396 and the cars carried the 396 badge. From 1970 to 1972 the 402, 454, 465 and 495 cid engines were introduced.

So stock it was either 360 hp 390hp or 450 hp.. Im gonna assume 360hp and add a header..so that lincoln was around 380hp or so. That setup is loud enuff to be ear hurting..or sweet music depending on the ear.
As the old saying goes..aint no subsitute for cubic inches.
 
#18 ·
last thing, ide like to know who runs this site. because you guys are the ones saying "who does this guy rhyno think he is" also that imma "troll". im right here boys! im talking to you personally and yout refering to me like im not here! thats actually more rude then ive been to any of you. why would you even think about doctoring up slips? are all you guys 18? and dont tell me that i dont know what im talking about! you guys started out telling me how "we all do are racing at high speeds, screw 1/4 mile" seriously guys a couple of bolt on access. that give you tops 20hp is nothing in the quarter mile! your not shaving seconds off! this thread was created by someone who said a linc. has a built 454 (CHEVY) motor in it and he smoked
him. also i doubt this linc. guy just decided to throw a stock454 in his car.. its worked probably pushin around 400-500 hp! so its stock 1/4 mile times, although it still beats your suzuki, is not the correct time. its probably a 12 sec. car! and to whoever ask why i keep posting is because when i end a discussion with some facts, someone decides they need to add more BS fuel to the fire! im an adult and im not looking for arguments or drama. i have drivin a reno and a forenza.. the reno was auto and the forenza was stick.they do get up and go, but so does a kia spectra, a nissan 1.8L, etc. your cars with your UD pulley and CAI and whatever other bolt on 5hp mod you put on it, is still only pushing around 140 hp... i dont know what kinda HP these cars have to the wheels, but i know at the dealer they say it has 126 hp, so that would mean that number is not to the wheels. ide say these cars with all your bolt on is still pushing under 130 to the wheels.

PS. ANYTHING IM SAYING IS NOT, AND I REPEAT IS NOT TO INSTAGATE ANY OF YOU! I AM MATURE ENOUGH TO NOT START "DRAMA" OVER A DISCUSSION SO INSUGNIFICANT. ANYTHING I SAY IS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE WITH CARS. IVE OWNED 26 IN MY 8 YEARS OF DRIVING AND FEEL THAT MY KNOWLEDGE OF AUTOMOBILES IS DEFINTLY EXCEPTIONAL.
 
#20 ·
I agree with rhyno here guys...and by the way i drive an 05 reno so im speaking from experience. Any car pushing 500hp would absolutely dominate a reno even in high end rpms...next time this phenomenon happens it should be caught on video and posted in the forums. I mean i have been just messing around in my car and raced old 94-95 accords and beaten them sure...but no CAI or UD pulley would make my car fast enough to beat a car with that much power
 
#21 ·
rhyno - We know our cars are not drag cars and will never be (unless we do an engine swap). Our cars are track cars. Secondly the CAI from BMS (they race the Reno in rally races, and would you believe that they have beaten a WRC STi I bet you don't) and that produces 6hp from their dyno. I have no idea how much exhaust from the cat back produces or free up, so I would say at least 10hp becuase we have a very restrictive one. There is no dyno on a 2.25 piping exhaust and 10 seems reasonable. The under pulley for our car produces at most 20hp (It has been dyno, but it may be lost due to our proformace section being messed up).

So lets recap here.

CAI - 6hp
Exhaust - 10hp
UD pulley - 20hp

So we have 16hp from just the CAI and exhaust alone, so right now we are at 142hp (2 more hp than you said). Then if we where to take the full amount of power of the under pulley which is 20hp we will get 162hp.

I have no idea how much power is being push to the wheels, as I do no have these mods yet. Also I am sure things like loweing the car effect things as well. Kinky/danny was going to dyno his car which has these mods and more, so you may want to ask him. But please feel free to dispute my info as I gotten it from here from other members that know their stuff and from other forums and sites (finding info on our cars for almost anything is a chore to say the least).
 
#23 · (Edited)
itschuck said:
The lighter pulley will give you better throttle response but is not gonna give you 20 hp..the cai will get you maybe 3 hp at best coupled with an exhaust maybe 10hp total...
Lowering the car will help it corner better, but no power gain..
That is correct with all of the mods that i have heard from this site, u may get a 10- 15 hp gain but in relation to putting that down to the ground you'll only see half. so lets recap for real numbers 126+15= 141 crank hp, whp with a 15% powerloss (avg) would be 21 hp... So we now have 141 hp minus 21 hp (powertrain loss) means you mite put down close to 120 whp...... :eek: anyone dyno their car to find out true number?

Friend of mine at the local dyno shop Gsc Motorsports in charleston told me avg. powerloss is 20%- 30% Ouch its not looking good
 
#24 · (Edited)
You guys are still feeding the troll... Just let the thread die.

A troll by definition is one who enters a thread for the sole purpose of getting people aggravated. Since rhyno did not START this thread, that makes him a troll. And yes, I will refer to him in third person because I'm done talking to him directly.

This is a person that even when faced with hard numbers and facts, refuses to believe a word. It's already been stated that if this Linc had a 454 it could have been pushing out anywhere from 390-500 HP (and thus would have dominated the Reno). No way to know.

I'm actually more inclined to believe that the guy lied about his 454 that to believe that AK was lying about beating him. If the car had the original engine, vs the Reno with a few "bolt ons", then it was a 1/2 second difference. Plain and simple.

I really am tired of this "HP is everything" mentallity.

I'm also really tired of the attitudes that have been popping up around here. People, please, for the love of Pete, if you don't like the car, DON'T DRIVE IT. And if you think a thread is BS, then DON'T BOTHER READING IT.

Think I'm going to do what Dog did and delete all the info I've ever posted here. Screw it. I'm done helping anyone.. Should be a requirement that if someone is going to post here that they have to own the damn car at least...

Adios
 
#25 · (Edited)
itschuck said:
The lighter pulley will give you better throttle response but is not gonna give you 20 hp..the cai will get you maybe 3 hp at best coupled with an exhaust maybe 10hp total...
Lowering the car will help it corner better, but no power gain..
And I suppose you have a UD pulley and have had the car dyno tested with it. If not how can you speak to the HP that it produces. IT looses 11lb of wieght off of the crank and the considerably smaller dia decreases the load from the accessories by more than 30%. And just to enlighten you none of these mods make any HP they reduce restriction that is robbing the engine of its natural power in the first place.
I have seen the dyno results and it looked to be more toward 22hp peak. Thats not 20 spread across the range or counted in increments but the red line jumping 20 ticks higher on the graph than the blue line.
The UD pulley was the first modd I did and you could feel quite a difference in power not just throttle response.
So why don't all of you little trolls quit regurgitating dribble you read on some other blog or board and leave it be.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I have a question. When was it decided that all 4bangers will make exactly 10-15 hp with an intake and exhaust?

Rhyno you might want to read this it contains some of those cold hard facts you are so found of.

I see the arguement often that an intake and an exhaust is only going to get you 10 -15 hp on a 4 cyl. That statement is so misleading that it is laughable. Here is a list of variables that will cause this magic number to be considerable different from one model of car to the next.
1. the size shape and design of the intake being installed.
2. the design, parts used, and extent of changes made to the exhaust.
3.Fuel management.
4.Timing and ignition management
5. compression
6.Restriction
7. power delivery threw the drivetrain.

I will hit on a few of these.
The HP achieved by different intakes and Exhausts is stupidly obvious. Moving on.

The computer management sytem in this car is a Delphi 64 pin Fuzzylogic set up that is on par or better than any car out there under $40,000 dollars. I will get back to why you get such great gear for so cheap later. The car has electronic ignition and varible computer controlled cams, and a very nice tune port setup and could adjust to and handle up to 4-5 psi of boost stock or a 70shot of nitrous stock. You are not going to do that with a Focus.
The great thing about this car is that when you change things like the intake and exhaust it doesn't keep running the same stock parameters it adjusts the fuel and timing to the changes.

Compression, any one with car experience knows one very effective way of making power in a N/A engine is raising compression. This is usually done by dished pistons and or changing the stroke length. Perfect example is increasing the stoke of a 350 small block by using the crank and con rods of a 327 to build a 383 stroker. Well a Forenza is up over 10.5:1 atmospheres.

Resrtiction, here is where we get to the ponies. A Forenza has the most restrictive intake and exhaust system I have ever seen in a car. Below is a pic of the intake and trust me the exhaust is just as bad. But the car still has the 2nd highest HP and Torque in its class. I hear some people say how terrible a stock Forenza sounds under full throttle and I have a response that while being some what silly gets to the heart of the matter. Let me jump on your back and strangle you with both hands and then you try to run and yell while im doing that.
You can be provided with a dyno chart that shows an Optra (same car) With to big of an exhaust, a considerably less effective intake and the UD pulley making 126 fwhp which translates to about 155 crank HP. With the differences in my set up I feel confident I am making between 10-15 hp more than that. Then add in the couple of HP I am making threw some minor mods like grounding. So with just bolt ons I am in a completely different competetive class than stock, and power wise on par with most of your sport compacts that are N/A and some lower level boosted cars such as the 170 hp Lacetti WTCC+r which is our car running some boost thanks to a factory supercharger.
Drive train has everything to do with real world performance, gearing is as big a player as power and I am here to tell you these transmissions are top knotch. The 5 spd is a Gertrag F20 labeled as a D20 to denote Daewoo. This is a sports compact performance transmission that you can find bolted to turbo engines in several makes. The auto while I don't remember all the letters and numbers is a very good GM design that is the auto option in all of those same cars. The trans has the same Delphi controll and does change modes to change the shift points to suit what you are doing. The auto will hold 1st threw 3rd gears all the way to redline under full throttle. People recomend shifting at 5500 rpms because the power and torque drop off after that but that is not how to best use a dohc engine. The power slowly drops after that and the higher shift point lets you engage the next gear at a higher RPM that puts you just below the max torque only using the power range of the gear. This is not a drag racing set up where you have to leave the line from a stop 3000 rpm below max torque. Dohc motors suck at the strip no matter what car they are in. But the Transmission makes up for some of this. Once you have left the line and break about 20 mph you will never drop out of the power range and a stock Forenza will only shift 1 time in a 80mph 1/4 mile run which a comparable speed to most stock compacts and well over half the V8 cars from the 60-70s. The only thing you have to fear is a car that is veryfast off the line. To use my own post as an example a V6 Camaro is no rocket off the line and once I got my rpms up the older car with twice the miles on the engine just didn't have a chance.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top