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Thread: Upgrading 1.3L Engine VS Swapping to G16A 8V Engine Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-22-2014 09:41 AM
geckocycles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktravis View Post
Geckocycles are you in Az.? I'm in Az and would love to see your set up.
Louisville, CO
03-22-2014 03:31 AM
Ktravis Geckocycles are you in Az.? I'm in Az and would love to see your set up.
03-02-2010 01:17 PM
Baratacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinoman View Post
A chassis dyno measures the rotational force at the rear wheels, rotational force = torque. HP is calculated irespective of whether it is measured at the rear wheels or at the flywheel.
It would seem that US nomenclature differs from other parts of the world where bhp is used to refer to hp irrspective of whether it is measured at the rear wheels or at the flywheel.
power loss is not consistant in every vehicle. Not even in the same model vehicle if it's a high mileage vehicle. On the average, a rwd vehicle has about a 15% power loss between the flywheel and the road. A 4wd vehicle operating in rwd mode has about a 20% loss. The samurai on average has about a 25% loss in it's stock form. The less power an engine puts out, the greater the power loss percentage seems to be in the drive train components. Also the greater the angle of the drive shafts between the gear boxes, the more power loss there is. With a short wheel base vehicle like the SJ413 you have much more dramatic angles to the drive shafts than a longer wheel base at the same hight. A chasis dyno does measure the torque at the wheel, and if you devide it by the total gear reduction (differential, transfer case and transmission) in a perfect frictionless drive train you should have the torque at the Engine. When you disconnect the drive train however, the calculated HP you figgured from the HP at the wheels will not be the same as the actual HP that you measure at the Crank. This is due to frictional power loss through the gear boxes and drive train components.
03-02-2010 11:10 AM
geckocycles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baratacus View Post
A garage dyno that you drive your car up on to measures WHP. Aproximate BHP can be calculated from the chassis (rolling) dyno numbers by adjusting for gearing and tire diameter, but like I posted earlier, there are a lot of variables that create parasitic drag on the drive train that aren't accomodated for. True BHP can only be measured with the drive train disconnected and a flywheel brake attached to load the flywheel and get a precise measurement of the engine power. That's an engine dyno and is what car manufacturers publish as the HP numbers for their vehicles. So when you see that your samurai should have 63hp but you can only get 40hp on a chassis dyno.... there's nothing wrong with your vehicle, that's what it should be putting out on a chassis dyno. Suzuki's published HP is from an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno.
I agree with you and there is loss in the drive train that BHP cannot be measured through the wheels.
03-02-2010 09:31 AM
Rhinoman A chassis dyno measures the rotational force at the rear wheels, rotational force = torque. HP is calculated irespective of whether it is measured at the rear wheels or at the flywheel.
It would seem that US nomenclature differs from other parts of the world where bhp is used to refer to hp irrspective of whether it is measured at the rear wheels or at the flywheel.
03-02-2010 09:05 AM
Baratacus A garage dyno that you drive your car up on to measures WHP. Aproximate BHP can be calculated from the chassis (rolling) dyno numbers by adjusting for gearing and tire diameter, but like I posted earlier, there are a lot of variables that create parasitic drag on the drive train that aren't accomodated for. True BHP can only be measured with the drive train disconnected and a flywheel brake attached to load the flywheel and get a precise measurement of the engine power. That's an engine dyno and is what car manufacturers publish as the HP numbers for their vehicles. So when you see that your samurai should have 63hp but you can only get 40hp on a chassis dyno.... there's nothing wrong with your vehicle, that's what it should be putting out on a chassis dyno. Suzuki's published HP is from an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno.
03-02-2010 02:49 AM
Rhinoman BHP = Brake Horse Power, its brake horse power irrespective of whether its measured at the rear wheels or at the flywheel however its fairly common to use the term rwbhp or whp to differentiate between the two. Its called brake horsepower because its measured (or not, see below!) by placing a load (brake) on the engine.
BHP = (torque * rpm)/n and is a calculated value, a dyno actually measures torque.
03-01-2010 11:19 PM
alternator
Quote:
Originally Posted by gasjr4wd View Post
I've been trying to follow this and I've read it a few times but still don't follow what BHP and WHP is. Are we talking rear wheel HP and flywheel HP? I think wheel hp=whp? But the b baffles me.

Keep going guys... I'm very interested in this thread but would be even more interested if we were talking torque and not so much HP. It's torque that gets you moving. HP is only torque X how hard you hold the skinny petal down.
BHP = Break Horsepower (HP right out of the engine, from my understanding).
03-01-2010 10:28 PM
gasjr4wd I've been trying to follow this and I've read it a few times but still don't follow what BHP and WHP is. Are we talking rear wheel HP and flywheel HP? I think wheel hp=whp? But the b baffles me.

Keep going guys... I'm very interested in this thread but would be even more interested if we were talking torque and not so much HP. It's torque that gets you moving. HP is only torque X how hard you hold the skinny petal down.
03-01-2010 03:12 PM
Baratacus You can gear it down or up and you can have an estimated rpm output of the wheels, but it doesn't take into consideration how many gear boxes it went through and how many gears, what viscosity your gear oil is, what your drag from your wheels are. The Samurai's power has to travel through 4 universal joints and three gear boxes just for 2wd. 4wd it's 6 universal joints and 4 gear boxes. The innertial weight of larger wheels increases on a curve with the rpms and there's also the resistance of a larger contact patch. That's why when you see a dyno sheet you need to know the drivetrain setup as well as the engine setup to get a good picture.

I know it was mentioned earlier in another topic. When dealing with a samurai it's very dificult to get equal results between two stock samurai on a dyno. They're 20+ years old and who knows what kind of condition the power and drive train are in. You find a balpark within 5-10 hp, but it's not possible to tell someone that they will get an exact ammount of power down to a single unit.
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