How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site
Suzuki Forum Suzuki Forums

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > General > General Suzuki Non-Model Specific Discussion
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance Advertise

Suzuki-Forums.com is the premier Suzuki All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-06-2014, 09:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool

I started a new thread on this subject to allow others to contribute to this list. I cannot verify all the different "Year, Model, Engine" combinations by myself. So, I will show you how to find it for yourself. If you find your cars information please post it here.

Warning: This information is provided free for use AT YOUR OWN RISK and is without guaranty or warranty or of any kind. Not every situation will conform to the given example. Your use of this information signifies that you assume all responsibility for any damage or loss.

It seems that the USA/Canada made Suzukis and Chevy/Geo Trackers are the ones not equipped with the Diagnosis Connector (or Monitor Coupler). It is important to know that the pinouts of the cars computers (ECMs) are not all alike. Find the correct manual for your car and locate the page that looks like the example schematic pictured below.

Here is a post for Suzuki Service Manuals:
https://www.suzuki-forums.com/general...nd-vitara.html

From what I found (so far) about these vehicles with no Diagnosis Connector, is that the supporting electronics are still there and the connector was simply NOT installed in the wire harness.

The schematic below is an example from the service manual that helped me find my pin location on the ECM to set Fixed Timing.

The example shows where the Monitor Coupler (Diagnosis Connector) would have been wired into the ECM. In this case pin TS (Timing Set) is wired to ECM connector E61 pin 16 or [E61-16]. Note the connector and pin location on the ECM circled in red at the bottom left.

Here is another example from the Wiring Diagram manual.

This example shows the same thing. Diagnosis Connector (Monitor Coupler) E152 pin 5 is wired to the ECM at E61 pin 16.

To set "Fixed Timing" jumper pins 4 and 5 on the Diagnosis Connector E152.
OR
In this case of the 2000 Grand Vitara that does not have a Diagnosis Connector,
Jumper ECM E61-16 to Chassis Ground (Negative Battery Terminal).
Attached Thumbnails
How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool-gvenginemanualsq416-420-625vol2_p598.jpg   How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool-sq416_wm_p161.jpg  

Last edited by rayw; 11-06-2014 at 09:42 PM.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-06-2014, 10:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

The last post was getting too long so I had to end it.

I did test this myself and it worked.

If you know or have found the correct pin to set "Fixed Timing Mode" without the Diagnosis Connector on your vehicle, please post it here.

Please tell us the Year, Make, Model, Engine Size, Transmission, Pin Location and Notation on how to use it.

Like this: 2000, Suzuki, Grand Vitara, 2.5L, 5 Speed Manual, ECM E61-16, Jumper to Ground

I will follow up with more information and pictures when I have more time.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-07-2014, 06:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

Not sure if your car has a Diagnosis Connector?

When I didn't find the connector in the place the manual said it would be (under the hood), that didn't stop me from looking for it. The Manual also showed it in other locations depending on the cars configuration. I wound up taking the dash apart before I give up and concluded I didn't have one.

There's an easier way.

Go to your cars computer (ECM) and look for the wires that correspond to the Diagnosis Connector.
See something missing? No wires means No Diagnosis Connector.
Attached Thumbnails
How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool-suzuki-ecmoc-1.jpg  
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-08-2014, 01:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

I discovered a couple of things when I did the test. First is that it did not work when I grounded the pin to the ECM case. It did work when I grounded the pin to the passenger door hinge. I could hear a slight change in the RPM. I was able the turn it on and off while the engine was running. The other thing I noticed is that it matters how you connect the the timing light. I used a clamp-on inductive pickup type. When I clamped it over the three wires leading to the cylinder the light flashed but it was so far off I could not find the timing mark. I had to pull back the plastic sleeve to clamp on a single wire. The first wire I used produced the timing mark. about 12 degrees which moved to 7 degrees when the timing was fixed.

Below is a picture of the type of Timing Light I used.
Attached Thumbnails
How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool-suzuki-spark-wire.jpg   How to set "Fixed Timing Mode" for Suzuki s with no Diagnostic Connector or Scan Tool-timing-light.jpg  

Last edited by rayw; 11-08-2014 at 02:08 PM.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2014, 02:14 PM   #5 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,688
Gallery: 0
2013GV is on a distinguished road
Default

Theres a very good reason why it wouldn't work with all 3 wires, and i'm surprised it worked on just the one. Those pickups are designed to sense the HT voltage in the plug lead, not the 12V in the primary side, congrats on having a timing light that will you lucky so and so. As for the grounding issue, never trust any metal casings, go direct to a solid body ground point, like a door hinge in your case. I hate it when theres a nice metal "ground" in the vicinity...except it isn't

The reason it didn't work when round all 3 wires is the currents flowing in the wires would be cancelling themselves out to some degree, and you would be picking up the "leftovers" which would be the decay voltage spike after the coil had fired which is why the timing appeared "way off" and not on a timing mark.

You used the correct wire, which is the power supply to the coil, and the one that will have the biggest voltage "spike" on it for the pickup to detect.

Well done, and congrats on having a sensitive enough light to work on the low voltage side.
__________________
2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."
2013GV is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2014, 04:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013GV View Post
Those pickups are designed to sense the HT voltage in the plug lead, not the 12V in the primary side, congrats on having a timing light that will you lucky so and so.
I guess I should mention that was not the first timing light I used. I had an older in-line direct connect model. I had to make an adapter out of an old distributor cable to reach down the spark plug hole. I started the car and the light flashed. I was patting myself on the back for making it work until I found the light was so dim I could not see into the engine. At that point I decided there was too much daylight and I waited until night. That night I started the car and light flashed. I could not see a thing. Then it hit me, either this timing light from the 1950s didn't work or all those years of jerking off had made me go blind. The next day I bought a new timing light.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-08-2014, 07:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 3,688
Gallery: 0
2013GV is on a distinguished road
Default

maybe a combination of a dying light and the other reason?

those inline ones aren't worth a knob of fecal matter, they cause more issues than they solve, robbing energy off a coil just when it needs it the most.
__________________
2015 5 dr Grand Vitara 2.4 (daily driver)
1971 V8 HG Holden with 383 stroker 9" torq lok and TH350 trans (the toy)
Mitzi RVR 2.0 (not one of my better buys)
the 2013 3 dr GV is now the off road only toy

"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear."
2013GV is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2014, 10:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

I guess some things are too good to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcabo View Post
Well, After researching and checking the ECM with the valuable help of rayw, on

Chevrolet Tracker '02, 2.0, Auto, 4WD, Soft Top. NOT SUPPORTED

Its ECM doesn have support for the diagnosis connector.

Thanks for your time and support rayw.

Cheers.
We checked and compared our 2002 models. They both had very similar ECMs made by Mitsubishi.

My 2002, Suzuki, XL-7, 2.7L, Auto, 4WD, ECM does NOT have the supporting electronics to set fixed timing manually.

Something to note: The supported 2000 Grand Vitara ECM was made by Hitachi.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-03-2015, 11:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 7
Gallery: 0
renegade f is on a distinguished road
Default

any up date to this post?

any one that have a suzuki vitara 4cl (j20a) 2001 canada and find the solution on the ecu pin for the diagnostic tool?

some post have diferent solutions but all are 2.5 engine...mine is 2.0 4cly and the ecu is in a plastic case, not metalic like yours..so, any have an idea what I need to do, to put my Ecu on FIXED SPARK MODE? to set the timing right?

thanks
renegade f is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-10-2015, 12:44 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
Gallery: 0
rayw is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by renegade f View Post
any up date to this post?

any one that have a suzuki vitara 4cl (j20a) 2001 canada and find the solution on the ecu pin for the diagnostic tool?

some post have diferent solutions but all are 2.5 engine...mine is 2.0 4cly and the ecu is in a plastic case, not metalic like yours..so, any have an idea what I need to do, to put my Ecu on FIXED SPARK MODE? to set the timing right?

thanks
I don't know if your vitara has a diagnostic connector or if fixed timing can be set manually. However you can find out yourself by using the information in this thread.

First, get the service manuals appropriate for your vehicle. You can find them here: https://www.suzuki-forums.com/general...nd-vitara.html
Example: Engine Manual GVSQ416-420-625 vol2

Then find the page that shows the pin on the computer connector to be shorted. Example: Page 549, Section 6E1-12, pin E61-14.

Verify you have or have not a diagnostic connector. (Item 15 on Page 550 6E1-13) If so, then follow the instructions in the manual to set fixed timing. (Page 655 6F2-7) If not, use the information in this thread to test your vehicle to see if you can set fixed timing.

Either way, post your results here. Hope that helps.

Last edited by rayw; 08-10-2015 at 12:48 AM.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > General > General Suzuki Non-Model Specific Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.