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Old 04-17-2017, 05:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I really do appreciate your attention, hoping to learn from you all in the process. Attached are three screen shots of freeze data. The first one with lower coolant temp had fuel system open still, after idling for a couple minutes. The second operating at temperature was also open when I was watching data real time. The third it had closed. I reset the code in-between each reading. In case images don't come across...

#1
Rpm 1325
Coolant 132
Sttrim 0
Lttrim 0
Sttrim3 -100.6
Lttrim3 -100.6
Fuel system open

#2
Rpm 300
Coolant 195
St trim 0
Lt trim 0.7
Lttrim3 -100.6
Lttrim3 -100.6
Fuel system open

#3
Rpm 250
Coolant 199
St trim 0
Lt trim -5.1
St trim3 -100.6
Lt trim3 -100.6
Fuel system closed
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Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-img_20170417_155953_1492466898115.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-img_20170417_160100_1492466919131.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-img_20170417_160417_1492466936750.jpg  
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:17 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slkmorse View Post
Ok ok let me rephrase, it'll save only because the engine is still rotating due to speed.
Do you have power when this happens? Do the dash lights come on? What did you use to clean the MAF with? And did you do it thoroughly - there's an interesting vid here, showing the scanner input before and after:
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think I have a more accurate description of what's happening after trying some different things in the driveway. I cleaned the MAF with MAF-specific cleaner, just like in the video. Vacuum all looks good with my amateur testing.

Here's what I tried. With the code reset, I start and rev up to about 2,500 rpms. When the motor "dies" the rpms drop and I start feathering. Nothing recovers until the rpms drop, and the mil MAF code triggers (presumably because of decreased airflow as the engine is stalling). Once the mil triggers, the feathering is effective and it'll recover, so long as rpms aren't too low to do so.

I think this confirms that the MAF isn't the problem, but is the result of the stall behavior. Once the mil is on, the system reads throttle inputs. Does this help at all?
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Your FT are pegged lean, that is why the engine is stalling...

You need to get a better scanner, something that will apply data to a graph..

Need to see the switching of the O2, not just a single shot(value)...

I suspect you will find the O2 stuck high, either fuel loaded or a short to power...

Clearing codes is counter productive as it deletes all learned data, (resets to factory)

.. Philip

An inexpensive way to go,
  • android device (phone or tablet),
  • an OBDII BT dongle ($5-10)
  • Torque app, (lite free) (pro $5)

This is what we need to see:
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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bluetooth obd2 is ordered, I'll follow up once I have some data. Thanks guys.
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Old 04-20-2017, 02:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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O ordered a BAFX BT scanner, and am using the Torque Pro app, this is great stuff, thanks for the recommendation. Attached are a couple of screenshots graphing activity of the MAF, throttle position, LT & ST ftrim, and O2 voltage. This was with me driving around my neighborhood 25-30mph. For a couple minutes the sytems seemed to be working in tandem, but then the MAF (blue line) dropped off. It tests well idling in the driveway, but seems to cut in and out. Once the MAF dropped to 0, it was really boggy, regardless of the spikes in MAF readings (limp home?). Let me know what you think, but I'm leaning toward a MAF replacement.
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Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot-1-.jpg  
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Here are a couple of shots of MAF & O2. When the MAF reading drops to 0, the O2 pegs at 1v. I'm curious if this is indicative of a failure of a shared ground or if the MAF activity shown would cause the O2 to behave like this. What's the cause and effect between the two systems? Should they behave independently or are they dependent?
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Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot_2017-04-20-14-42-51.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot_2017-04-20-14-45-38.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot_2017-04-20-14-46-15.jpg   Engine Cuts Out - Throws P0102 Code-screenshot_2017-04-20-14-48-23.jpg  
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hopefully Aqua will respond, as he will give you better information than I can, but from an amateur's perspective, your O2 switching doesn't look right to me. Normally it switches between 0.1 - 0.9 volts when it's working properly. If you look halfway down this page, this is the graph that you'd usually see with the O2 switching as it should:
Delphi Switching Oxygen Sensors
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slkmorse View Post
Here are a couple of shots of MAF & O2. When the MAF reading drops to 0, the O2 pegs at 1v. I'm curious if this is indicative of a failure of a shared ground or if the MAF activity shown would cause the O2 to behave like this. What's the cause and effect between the two systems? Should they behave independently or are they dependent?
Several comments:

The MAF and O2 are not electrically or physically connected..

The O2 generates its own voltage due to electro chemical action, Therefor the .05 -.9vdc.. Yours looks lazy!

The MAF has a 12vdc feed and ground, also a 5vdc reverence and reference ground supplied by the ECU.. You should carefully check the validity of the wiring.. The MAF should show a reading at idle and should increase with an increase volume passing over it..
It may be advantageous to step down the scale for the Graph, 8-10 may be sufficient

Validate the tubing from the air cleaner to the throttle body, a leak can cause a multitude of false data..

When testing, DO NOT introduce raw 12vdc to the computer circuits, bad things may happen..

... Philip

BEX: not all O2 exhibit switching as you indicate, all depends on the scanner..(speed of sampling and buffer)
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:46 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquanaut20 View Post

BEX: not all O2 exhibit switching as you indicate, all depends on the scanner..(speed of sampling and buffer)
So, would that be due to the way the O2 is actually operating, or only because of the way that a particular scanner is picking it up. Presumably the latter??
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