Kick 16V bogging - Page 2 - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site
Suzuki Forum Suzuki Forums

» Auto Insurance
» Featured Product
Wheel & Tire Center

Go Back   Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Suzuki Sidekick, Escudo, Vitara & Geo Tracker Forum (1989-1998)
Register Home Forum Active Topics Photo Gallery Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Auto EscrowAuto LoansInsurance

Suzuki-Forums.com is the premier Suzuki Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2013, 05:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
Bex
Veteran
 
Bex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 15,956
Gallery: 0
Bex is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_c View Post
I have a Snap-On Solus but it does not have Suzuki in it....so for now a scanner is out.
Presumably, since you were able to get codes, you know that you don't need a scanner, only a paperclip for this car. If this is something that you just bought, pull the dome light fuse for a minute, then replace, and now drive the car and wait for the CEL's to come back. The ones you are seeing may be in memory only. However, if you have no speedometer, I would think the code 24 is real. This is how the ECU knows how fast you are going - the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) records every 4 rotations of the speedo cable and sends that info to the computer. What kind of gas mileage are you getting?
As xxx says, the temp gauge is meaningless - mine has sat at 1/4 for 18 years, even when the car is warmed up. This is just a single wire reading to the dash, and is not connected to the ECU in any way. Get an IR thermometer and point it at the thermostat housing - you should get a reading of about 170F when the car is fully warmed up.
You say that your EGR 'affects' the engine. Your idle should drop to at least 500 rpm, or lower, if the EGR is fully clear. This is normally the number one cause for bogging (although, with your VSS issue, this may not be the case here). You can remove the EGR from the car and clean it with carb cleaner. A bottle or two of Techron into the gas tank might help, as well.
Probably your first chore should be to get the speedo working. You may also want to do a compression test on the engine, to check the timing of it as well, so that you know that the car is timed properly By the way, spark plugs should be gapped to .028" and not just used out of the box.
__________________
'91 Tracker 8V, 1.6L, 5 sp, 4wd, 2dr, conv, CAMI, horribly rusty
'97 Suzuki Vitara 8v, 1.6L 5 sp, 4wd, 2dr, tintop, horribly purple
'61 NSU Quickly - 150mpg
Bex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-23-2013, 07:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
xxx
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,101
Gallery: 0
xxx is on a distinguished road
Default

Codes 14, 15, 24, and 34.
Hard fails.

OP, there is no over the counter tools for your car, here, in N.America
your scan tool only does 96 and newer Suzuki;s and 98 in canada


if you clear the codes (pull dome fuse for 2min), and if they come back, all of them are real.
every one.
your engine ECU is in limphome, nothing else matters much, repair the hard failures
the ECU is not fibbing to you.

read this first,
Failsaft now what?

Last edited by xxx; 02-23-2013 at 07:12 AM.
xxx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2013, 07:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Gallery: 0
Craig_c is on a distinguished road
Default

Ok, I had a few things unplugged when I first got the Zuk, and they were causing three of the codes, 14, 15, and 34. I pulled a battery cable off when I changed out the stuck wide open T-stat. It still bogs down, seems to only do it when hot. I do not have limited RPM as you say it will in limp home mode.

I am going to try and get the speedo fixed today, junkyard close by has a few Kicks. Does the ECM really rely on the VSS that much?
Craig_c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2013, 07:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Gallery: 0
Craig_c is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bex View Post
Presumably, since you were able to get codes, you know that you don't need a scanner, only a paperclip for this car. If this is something that you just bought, pull the dome light fuse for a minute, then replace, and now drive the car and wait for the CEL's to come back. The ones you are seeing may be in memory only. However, if you have no speedometer, I would think the code 24 is real. This is how the ECU knows how fast you are going - the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) records every 4 rotations of the speedo cable and sends that info to the computer. What kind of gas mileage are you getting?
As xxx says, the temp gauge is meaningless - mine has sat at 1/4 for 18 years, even when the car is warmed up. This is just a single wire reading to the dash, and is not connected to the ECU in any way. Get an IR thermometer and point it at the thermostat housing - you should get a reading of about 170F when the car is fully warmed up.
You say that your EGR 'affects' the engine. Your idle should drop to at least 500 rpm, or lower, if the EGR is fully clear. This is normally the number one cause for bogging (although, with your VSS issue, this may not be the case here). You can remove the EGR from the car and clean it with carb cleaner. A bottle or two of Techron into the gas tank might help, as well.
Probably your first chore should be to get the speedo working. You may also want to do a compression test on the engine, to check the timing of it as well, so that you know that the car is timed properly By the way, spark plugs should be gapped to .028" and not just used out of the box.


Yes, the EGR will almost kill the engine at idle. New timing belt (crank pulley did not wobble) and set in time. Compression tested out 190-200. Plugs were gapped (Im ASC Master Cert.....I do things correct!).

As far as fuel milage....kinda hard to figure with no odometer....but Id say Im using as much as my old Jeep (17mpg) if not more!!
Craig_c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2013, 09:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
xxx
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,101
Gallery: 0
xxx is on a distinguished road
Default

great no codes after driving,.. that is what counts, fully hot driving say 10miles.

yes ,VSS is a top sensor.
think about load.?
the ECU uses load calcs, and speed and mass car are figured.
the eCU works totally different racing (spooling) a motor in neutral than in drive.
in fact, look at any 96 + car OBD2 scans see the pid for load, very very important that.

it adds fuel based on air flow ,temp ,rpm and load.

is the needle dead on the speedo? and odometer dead?
wow no odometer, gee its a bad cable ,
no speedoHEAD breaks both the needle and odometer at once. are they both dead.?
due to mech. path in side. are separate

bad cable, bad gear in xfr case speedo drive or bad key on same to cable.

remove the cable ad the xfr case ,spin it CCW with drill. does speed move smoothly
up scale and odmeter roll.?
yes, your fixing wrong end. (gear set in hand is bad,or the key there.)
no, ? ;pull out cable from below, get 1/2 a cable?

we can fix each fail one at a time. mpg is last . (if real 17, it's in limphome or the 02 is railed lean from exh leaks near it)
this old no scan tool cars, are very hard to diagnose , lots of tests by hand,... 1,by 1.

a 93 Sidekick JX 16V
here is the path.
bogging true lean is lost fuel pressure, or filthy maf. , clogged injectors (booging is smooth power lost at any speed) what speed, is yours and does it happen WOt UP A hill.
misfire (you feel it misfire ?) Misfire is lost power too but is violent.

define all symptoms good and bad, driving or not, hot and cold block. and WOT UP HILL PERFORMANCE. IF POSSIBLE.

When we get motor in to closed loop at idle and light cruise (VSS needs to work) MPG happens. 28 USA MPG on open road. easy.

Last edited by xxx; 02-25-2013 at 09:47 AM.
xxx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-25-2013, 02:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
Bex
Veteran
 
Bex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 15,956
Gallery: 0
Bex is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_c View Post

As far as fuel milage....kinda hard to figure with no odometer....but Id say Im using as much as my old Jeep (17mpg) if not more!!
Horrible. You should be getting 25-29...but of course, your ECU doesn't know how fast you are going, so is delivering fuel according to a set of predetermined values. Definitely deal with the VSS.
__________________
'91 Tracker 8V, 1.6L, 5 sp, 4wd, 2dr, conv, CAMI, horribly rusty
'97 Suzuki Vitara 8v, 1.6L 5 sp, 4wd, 2dr, tintop, horribly purple
'61 NSU Quickly - 150mpg
Bex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-26-2013, 11:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Gallery: 0
Craig_c is on a distinguished road
Default

Got a brand new used speedo cable in, took care of the 24 VSS code. Now no codes, the thing still bogs at cruising speeds. Running a steady speed (45-65 mph) on flat ground it will start to lose power, if I press the accelerator down a bit it hits and goes on. When it picks up you feel it instantly. Even though it did affect engine idle, I think I am going to pull the EGR and clean it, and I will check fuel pressure and base timing today as well. This thing runs like a top all other times, idles great, accelerates as good as you could ask for a sub 100hp SUV!
Craig_c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-26-2013, 12:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
xxx
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,101
Gallery: 0
xxx is on a distinguished road
Default

Vitural signature 93 Sidekick JX 16V

this is normal on old cars, the failures all ignored year after year.
if idle holds at 800 each stop sign the EGR is not the cause of any bogging.
the EGR needs only to be closed, in fact you can close it and defeat it then
check for bogging , i must presume you know the difference from bog and misfire.
right, misfire is violant, bogging is lean smooth loss of power.
IF wide open throttle power is good , you need to say that, up a tall hill (IF WOT IS GOOD the fuel pressure is ok, not low)
this a 2 door?
this 3,4,5 speed tranny, just a clue on full car spec helps.

if car bogs, (not misfire) state when it does and when i does not?
moving, hot and cold.?
the good and bad, tell me what is happening.?

i have a page for 3 majors
bogging
misfire
and
flooding.
and lots more. if i know what it really is, in all modes of driving hot and cold this can get easy. (pretend we can not drive your car, )

Last edited by xxx; 02-26-2013 at 12:49 PM.
xxx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-26-2013, 02:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 12
Gallery: 0
Craig_c is on a distinguished road
Default

It a 93 4 door manual trans 4x4.

It is NOT a misfire! It goes up a hill, accelerates great....actually when it goes into bog I accelerate out of it!

Only seems to do it hot, as the open highway is a few miles from my house and I usually start it a few mins before I get in to let it warm up for my young daughter.

When it bogs....if I hold steady throttle position (no more or less throttle pedal than what I was at when it started to bog) it will keep bogging, losing speed. If I give it more throttle, it instantly picks up and goes on. The longer I let it bog, the more throttle I have to give it to pick back up.
Craig_c is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-26-2013, 04:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
xxx
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: .
Posts: 2,101
Gallery: 0
xxx is on a distinguished road
Default

GReat !
16v 4door 5sp, great.
true bog (no order, but CEL is on ,key , goes out driving)
Weak maf (clean it (never touch guts) use CRC maf cleaner.
low fuel pressure. NO.

OK WOT, IS FULL POWER UP HILL, this is always test one, for pump pressure. (AND maf WORKING WEL)
seems both are working WOT, btw WOT shuts off the O2 sensor too. so its just MAF , RPM and VSS calculated loads.
But cruising that is whole other kettle of fish.

with steady foot, light cruise , flat ground, no bog , (correct my errors)
with fast foot, same flat ground bogs,
if i wait a few seconds not moving the foot, the bog corrects, flat ground
if i floor the pedal, at bog, flat ground it corrects.

this is called, TIP-IN ONLY! bog. (what cause the catch up is the MAF)
if it catches up, that is because all MAFS are slow. but catch up and
MAF allows WOt ALL DAY AND WOT WORKS BECAUSE FUEL PRESSURE IS GOOD.

Tip in bogs.
this is a function of the TPS TP throttle angle device. on the Throttle body
seems yours is bad. it can be tested on car and off car.

BAD TPS. (MAYBE)

Last edited by xxx; 02-26-2013 at 04:04 PM.
xxx is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site > Suzuki Models > Suzuki Sidekick, Escudo, Vitara & Geo Tracker Forum (1989-1998)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.