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Old 01-29-2013, 10:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 94 tracker elecrtrical problem

New to this forum and a new tracker owner. My 94 tracker has an electrical problem where the tach will quite working and the alternator stops charging the battery. Everything else works and the engine runs fine until the battery drains. This problem comes and goes as I am driving of course I can't get it to do it in the gargae to trouble shoot it. Any ideas?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you checked the battery connections to make sure that they are tight and clean? Checked the battery and had your alternator tested? Made sure that the fuse box that is by the battery is in good condition and not corroded? When you start your car, what is the battery voltage? It should be 14.6. If so, turn off the car and put your headlights on for a couple of minutes. Then start the car and check the voltage again at the battery - the voltage should again go to 14.6, or else there is a possibility that the alternator is bad, or some fault in the wiring circuit.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
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where do you live, (in the SALT belt or not)

see my charging page ( do have a voltmeter or all is lost)
in the search box ,type , charging.

the Alternator fails for many reasons
IT
its wires.
its ground is bad (mounts, are grounds and in the rust belt (are you) fails big time.
some fail just because the dash lamp is burned out (non self excited alts)
see my bad power page.
see the salt belt cars that splash salt under the right fender, fuse box.?
direct
Electrical power failure
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Live in Iowa. The Alternator was replaced with a new one and still having same issues. Fues block under hood is good and alternator gound is good. Also the radio locked up and the brake light comes on but is dim. Talked to a garage today and since the tach and alternator are not tied together in anyway they think those 2 circuits are shorting together somewhere. Let the search begin.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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you replaced the alt before or after 1st post. ???????? i dont under stand your last post at all, (before, after and now, what are your symptoms now)?
and what is the tacho deal, the tacho has 3 wires, (power shared with all gauges, ground shared with all guages, and spark signal, if tacho dies, the ecu CUTS FUEL.)
If the battery drops below 10v the ECU goes dead, and spark ends, and tacho ends.... use a voltmeter. , check the cig lighter. its so easy there, and very much at
dash voltage.... super easy great voltage test there.

is the battery still discharging?
is car still stalling.
ill assume its all bad, with this post below.


can i presume you own a $15 DMM? and can volts.
when it messes up the battery reads what. the cigarette light socket reads what?
12v?
You have total power loss. the radio is a simple 2 wire connection. (for display logic to wake up)
ground (it has 3) and power, it will come up, and look alive.
key on.
the radio fuse must have 12v on both sides, key on, if only 1 side is hot, the fuse is blown, if dead both sides,
your main fuse box is dead on the fender. or dead to key switch power input.
same with head lamps fuses, (fix HL first) these are HOT at all times , take no key, report anytime they fail, its a big issue.
same with IGCOIL fuse. must be hot , keyon. both sides of the fuse, (dmm checks using VOlts scale)

here are some drawings, you can trace power easy , just with his one PDF. its on my schematic page and does both 8v and 16v, see?

lets do 2 tests now.
what is the battery voltage, during the bad events, ?
what is the voltage at the terminals on the fender fuse box. All terms must be hot all the time. do not short terminals to ground. by accident, lots of power here.

http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95powerdistra1.pdf

see drawing pg0, see the main power? fuse bank?
see the fuse box top right?
do your head lights work, Y/N? , if no , fix that first. its the most easy to fix.

the white-yellow feed, see that? got 12v there?
then check the white-green wire, at the big fuse box that runs the car. got 12v? here
if all things work, cept battery drains, then fix the alternator.

the tacho is related !, i told you that charge lamp must work , the PDF shows you why, ill review it now.
it uses 12vdc power to work, the whole bank runs off one power wire, if one has power, they all do , see why?

and gets that power from pg 7 on same PDF (or 6 is 8v. what is your valve count, i dont know) 94 trackers in calif market were 16v, but i cant tell you, you tell me...
see the power feed call IG-coil it runs 7 idiot lamps (charge is 1) and 3 meters
if that power feed dies, car will not start.
and the Alt dies
and so does all 7 lamps. and 3 gauges.
see that page 7>?

the radio gets power from the radio cig fuse, which in turns comes from the key ignition
switch.
If the dash lights up, (I dont mean park lamps, in dash ) i mean the idiot lamps ,what do they do?
CEL
brake (hand brake on)
CHARGE, key on , not running.
Seat belt off body warning.
4wd if in 4wd
oil pressure, key on, not running. must glow.
Fuel guage deflects some. must.
Temp might move a tiny bit. (no mater this,its cold)
Techo moves upscale cranking, only or running. never stalled.
if these function work, then
the power to dash is good.
does this help you?

Dead charging system.
The alternator will work if 4 the wires are good.
from the big terminal at alt to battery via the 60amp fender fuse.
the alternator 2 wires on the rear (rear alt plug most both be 12v)
disconnected from the alt, and measured at the connector, key on. 12v.
the first pin is the sense wire, the other is the charge lamp if either read bad, the wiring
is faulty in the key/switch, or lamp is burned out in the dash charge lamp. (the lamp is the alt bootup excitation source, no excition the alt is born dead)<< many brands.
btw , i forgot to say ,some alts with bad charge lamps (burn open) can self start 1/2 the time.... this is all on my charge pages.. ever word.... and why and the schematics proving the why. This (some alts have their own boot circuit, no telling what any car might have, with Nippon alts and clones, to the mx)
Bottom line, the lamp must be GOOD. is it?

the charge lamp must GLOW key on, or it's the wire to the alt is bad, or the alt is bad.
or the alt is not grounded.


one guy here, long ago failed to see the big lug on the back of the alternator (the main charging wire) the lug was totally shot.
when looking at wires, make sure they are not burned, shot, rusted to nothing in ends, etc, tug the lugs, do they fall off ,because only plastic is holding it one, melted?

the alt has only 5 connections
1: sense (to key on)
2: idiot to power.
3: charge wire, big wire.
4: ground (mounts)
5: must spin faster that the crank, way faster. 1.5 to 1.8 times faster, not sure exact. belt must not be slipping thats it.

it must never allow the battery running to drop below 13.2 volts at any time (float value) can go to near 15v. RUNNING. (800 rpm engine min.)

http://www.fixkick.com/Charging/charging.html


be vary careful not to ground any node (terminals ) test the charge system or great danger can occure.
if disconnection the battery ,
take off the NEG lug first and put back Last, never any other way.
and do not jumper boost any car backwards.

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Old 01-30-2013, 07:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm pretty certain the tach and the alternator have a common connection - a black/white wire that powers them both along with several other circuits - that wire may be broken inside the insulation at some point in the loom.

Get a small test lamp and wire it between the black/white wire where it connects to the alternator and ground - the lamp should turn on whenever the ignition is switched on. The next time you're driving and the tach dies, pull over and open the hood and see if the lamp is still lit, if it's out you've found the problem (a broken wire) although not where the problem is. if the lamp is still lit, I'm pointing you in the wrong direction.

Finding where in the loom the wire is broken is going to be quite challenging, so once you have confirmed that it is broken, consider running a new wire, either from the relevant fuse to the alternator - or - to the back of the cluster.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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my guess now, is that you dont know that the ECU makes spark
if ECU drops out (10v) then spark dies, ECU makes all spark happen.
so the Tacho dies, the tacho measures spark, period.
so i think the tacho, issue is a red herring, am i right.?

i think you just have a bad alt. (its a function and as such all support parts are included in that function)
the record here for replaced alts is 5, in a row.

that means, bad alt
bad battery (that's right, some batteries just wont charge, due to bad internal resistance) we barrow one first to prove that 1st.
the bad 4 wires
bad change lamp
or not spinning fast enough.

we can measure all the voltage drops and find the true failure.
most want to guess and throw parts? (the longest story here if ever there was)
so
is the charge lamp on keyon, or is it not. if not why not.

Last edited by xxx; 01-30-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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all my speedo head
the power enters on one pin and is pc traced feed accoss the back of the head.
see my schematic above it shows that as fact. the PDF.
so what else is dead in the I/P cluster.. if all else has power in the head then
they all do. same with ground in the head,
i think the OP, saw the tacho die as the discharging battery crossed 10v.
this is when the ECU drops out the internal reg in the ecu does that.
(i do not know the exact volts but most cars are 9-10v) if tested this and know it for a fact. (the better ecu in world drops out at 6.5vdc (5v regs inside))
so at 10v, spark ends. and spark feed back ends, and the tach goes to zero. now.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordem View Post
I'm pretty certain the tach and the alternator have a common connection - a black/white wire that powers them both along with several other circuits - that wire may be broken inside the insulation at some point in the loom.
The schematic indicates that the black/white wire that runs to the alternator, also connects to the tachometer through the ignition coil (black/white into the ignition coil from the ig-coil fuse, then out of the ignition coil as the brown/white wire to the noise suppressor, and from the noise suppressor, as the brown wire, to the tach). So yes, the alternator and tach would be connected through circuits.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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the schematics are clear
even more clear is the FSM showing every path in the harness.
there is no guessing.? right?

the tacho is power bussed left and right in the head.
see the pin 5 buss bar in the head
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/ALL95GAGES.pdf

now look at the physical world of same.
if the other loads, are working, then power is good.
so tighten the 3 screws on the tach seen here, and fix that.
or make spark good again....
If the head has power, it all has power, so screw in a new charge lamp,
see? it too has power, and you can even see that below, (flex PC)
i bet if OP posts what works and what dont work below, it be easy, , is the charge lamp on , key, as step 1.

Last edited by xxx; 01-31-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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