94 tracker elecrtrical problem - Page 2

fordem · 01-31-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bex

The schematic indicates that the black/white wire that runs to the alternator, also connects to the tachometer through the ignition coil (black/white into the ignition coil from the ig-coil fuse, then out of the ignition coil as the brown/white wire to the noise suppressor, and from the noise suppressor, as the brown wire, to the tach). So yes, the alternator and tach would be connected through circuits.

Whilst you are correct - that's not the connection sequence I'm thinking of.

The dash cluster - fuel gauge, temp gauge, tach & warning lights are all powered from the black/white wire - the schematic may just show the black/white wire running to the cluster, but not the internal cluster wiring.

If you lose power to the cluster, the tach will drop to zero - which is one of the symptoms reported by the original poster - the fuel gauge will stay where it is (at least mine) does, any warning lights that are on will go off, those that were off will stay off, and the temperature gauge will drop to cold - which the original poster has not mentioned, perhaps he did not notice.

If the entire ignition circuit (black/white wire) loses power, the engine will die immediately - the original poster has said it continues to run until it drains the battery - which suggests to me, that the igntion & EFI circuits are still powered.

All we can do at this point is speculate and wait for Dirty Dog to update us.

xxx · 02-01-2013, 07:48 AM

even more important is charge lamp.....?????
depends on year,exact and cluster used
there are many clusters...

yes, its all speculative,,, due to lack of input.
i do have lots of info on clusters, (rebuilt many 2 and 3 dead to 1 good)

Quote:

94 tracker

,,, dont say much
if for calif it can be a 16v,
and id say its a 4wd, as most 2wd dont have a tacho, but????
and the door count,changes the cluster on many a tracker.

OP what engine
what doors
2/4wd?
what tranny.

(not counting KPH or MPH)
14 heads in 1994, usa alone.

the cluster is Flex PC (printed circuit, see photos, ), and is extremely reliable with the screws tight on the meter , that is why i asked for facts on all lamps. and meter.s.
here is my condensed list, no where else does this exist, just here....... check it out..... speedos on kicks are the most complex of all... .

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/speed...ter-frack.html

fordem · 02-01-2013, 10:36 AM

I've taken the charge lamp into consideration - the original poster does not mention that the charge light comes on when the tach quits, I'm assuming it does not, and factored that into my hypotheses, which is why I'm sending him to look at the supply to the alternator.

xxx · 02-02-2013, 09:19 AM

all we can do is probe.
we cant do the tests or answer for him.
i think hes gone, and took it to a shop..... or has to work for a living.. .poor guy../
my hypotheses

Dirty Dog · 02-02-2013, 05:16 PM

Thanks xxx for the info. Here is what I know now.

1)Tach drops when battery is 10V or lower.
2)Battery light, oil light, come on and stay on with key in on position. Seat belt and brake light come on then go off after a few seconds. No other lights come on.
3)Alternator sometimes charges. 14.6V at start up. Voltage would drop to 11.5V then back up to 12.4V then fianlly kept dropping to 10V when tach stopped working and I shut it off.
4)Checked wires to alternator both had 12V same as battery with key on.
5)With key off I decided to check for short. Placed test light on positive terminal of battery and probe to each wire on alternator plug and light came on for both wires. Disconnented harness under dash and tested again at alternator plug. Black/White wire still made the light come on but the white/red wire did not.
Is there anything else this b/w wire goes to inbetween the firewall and alternator?
Checked other side of plug under dash (side that goes to insturment cluster) and both wires made the light come on. I assume this is because how some of the insturments work or am I wrong.

The car is a 94 tracker 2dr 5spd 4wd with engine code U.

xxx · 02-03-2013, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dog

Thanks xxx for the info. Here is what I know now.

1)Tach drops when battery is 10V or lower. (drops = dies?)
i have no spec, on how low a voltage the tacho works, but the ECU
dies there so is a moot point, 10v is bad, you have a power failure
its easy to find , got a voltmeter , I can direct you..
2)Battery light, oil light, come on and stay on with key in on position. Seat belt and brake light come on then go off after a few seconds. No other lights come on. DEAD CEL (SES) and but is the FUEL GUAGE working?
i bet the I/P cluster park lamps come on in HL PARK position, right>?
and that the HL (head lamps) do work and the cars body parking lamps work , right? so then so should the Cluster park lamps , work.
if the voltage is 10v, we fix that first its fruitless to wonder why eCU is dead
if power is too low and it is. a dead battery can not run EFI , NO WAY!

The CHARGE LAMP IS OUT, fix that first. if below passes.
unless the Cig lighter power pin is 10v, key on, is it? (you can do that sitting
in the drivers seat , so easy , to do (and very revealing) the pin is rear
center , see it? use a volt meter.
12.5v (0F ) is normal here, never 10v.

the CHARGE LAMP OUT, means the ALTERNATOR my work randomaly or
every other start of car. (the born dead issues,)
the lamp provide , startup current to the alt called exciton current.
The LAMP musT noT ever be burned out. I is it?

SURE IT DOES>!
3)Alternator sometimes charges. 14.6V at start up. Voltage would drop to 11.5V then back up to 12.4V then finally kept dropping to 10V when tach stopped working and I shut it (it = tacho or engine or both)off.
as stated 3 times, the charge lamp is dead. so the alt will be random
working, so when not working voltage will be near 12.5 (cold 0F temps)
then will drop as the battery discharges with the normal 10 amp loads
(more with HL on)
this i normal, in 4 hours driving, the voltage drops to 10v and the ECU
stops working, as will the TACH, (or both)
its not important that. this is normal with dead alternator.
Get 12vdc back to the lamp if missing.
to test the lamp. with out pulling the cluster is easy.
you pull the rear alternator plug.
Key on. no starts.
and carefully ground the white-red wire.
the CHARGE lamp must glow, if not, the LAMP is bad.
replace the lamp or the ALT will be very unhappy, (many cars do that)

4)Checked wires to alternator both had 12V same as battery with key on.
GOOD TEST ! thanks ,p ower is good at the fender fuse box. under load.

5)With key off I decided to check for short. Placed test light on positive terminal of battery and probe to each wire on alternator plug and light came on for both wires. (hot lamp tests)

Disconnected harness under dash? and tested again at alternator plug. Black/White wire still made the light come on but the white/red wire did not.
if the Blk/white shorts, the fuse blows, so this test is not usefull.
and that wire has many loads, so lamp glows, expected.
the white- red goes the lamp and loads. (black-white has many.
so this proves the lamp is burned.
back to lamp burned out now... fix the lamp, then post how well the
alternator works now. many alts fail , hard, with no lamp,, stated 4 times now.

Is there anything else this b/w wire goes to in between the firewall and alternator? Sure on my schematic page see , the full distribution of power
it runs scads of things, see link below,
Checked other side of plug under dash (side that goes to insturment cluster) and both wires made the light come on. I assume this is because how some of the instruments work or am I wrong.
(not sure what wires, colors not mentioned or exact connect or pin counts)

The car is a 94 tracker 2dr 5spd 4wd with engine code U = 8v .

U is GEO parlance for 8valves.

off my schematics page.
the full power distra pdf , its all there , every blk-wht load.
http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95powerdistra1.pdf

this dwg is only THOSE parts that make the Alternator work, not of the whole car, see FSM for whole car... its there 3 times, 3 ways. from sunday.

here are the blk-white loads

see p6 six above

IG coil ( no spark)
ECU main
Turn
back
wiper
Gen
alarm mod. belts.,door ajar, and HL minder.
the whole I/P cluster, (all speedo power)
FP relay (no fuel)
02 sensor heater.
nothing important just the GO bits. LOL !!!

xxx · 02-03-2013, 07:29 AM

now the topic born dead.
many alts, have no residual magnetic charge in the core of the rotor
the motor starts ok, the alternator spins fast but the coil is dead,
the coil dead means the alternator was born dead.
how many alts work is the charge lamp , puts a small charge in the coil
and that boots straps the Alt up. ending born dead syndrom.

here is one example
you key on, current flows from the lamp down to the right coil and to the reg.
the reg wakes up. (it must) and then the reg grounds the other side of the coiil
coil = field rotor./
so now the alternator is now alive and working.
if the lamp burns out, the boot exciton is now zero and the alt, is born dead !
sometimes residual magnetism , causes the boot up, BUT IS NEVER RELIED upon.
(some brands of alt, and clones have aux boot circuits, pretend none do and win)

Dirty Dog · 02-03-2013, 10:45 AM

Finally got it so the charge light didn't come on with key in on position.

1) Unplugged Alternator and checked voltage to wht/red wire 11.6V and b/w wire 11.6V which is voltage at battery.

2) Grounded w/r wire and charge light came on

3) Placed a jumper (testing) wire in alt connector on w/r wire and plugged backed in to alt. Light didn't come on when plugged back in. Checked voltage on jumper wire 11.6V. Placed Jumper wire on ground and charge light came on.

Conclusion another bad alternator.

xxx · 02-03-2013, 05:51 PM

bad Alt,. wrong alt.
Alt not grounded.

take a set of car battery jumper cables, and jump the battery MINUS (dont guess) (danger if done wrong battery can explode !!)
and jump MINUS to the ALT CASING, ITS NOW GROUNDED.
MANY SALT CARS CAN NOT GROUND THE ALT, USING THE MANY MOUNTS.

THE STARTER top bolt is a huge ground lug, it too must be good. (clean and tight, many POs, put in a new starter and fail to even tighten this critical ground )

the alternator has no ground wire, it trusts the mounts, and trust dont work in salt land
nor do many other very critical grounds on suzuki's
thus my bad ground list. the Gxxx must all be clean and good.

Dirty Dog · 02-04-2013, 06:13 PM

Already jumped the ground in that exact way. Did not make a difference. Took the jumper I had on the w\r wire and touched to alt case and charge light came on. Took the alt in to get replaced and the they tested it and it was bad. Hope I don't take a run at the record.