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Old 01-29-2013, 12:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default still having issues!!!

ok thought i fixed the stopped running issue, ok sorta did. it runs has 34 psi at the filter, drives good after 55 but gettin to 55 it falls on its face. changed dizzi cap and wires but to no avail.
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96 "sport" 3spd auto 1.6 16v 2dr geo tracker all stock









It might not b fast but it looks it!!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Sounds like something you've been working on for a while. IF so, link those threads in THIS thread for the help of others.

Either that, or detail what you've done thus far.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:03 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeznutts77 View Post
ok thought i fixed the stopped running issue, ok sorta did. it runs has 34 psi at the filter, drives good after 55 but gettin to 55MPH it falls on its face. changed dizzi cap and wires but to no avail.

congrates a working fuel gauge..
and good pressure if running, and low if not.

Ok , Rome was not built in a day... old cars , are finicky. (i guess you are in the salt belt or spent long time there>? , Rust?

your car bogs.
with good fuel pressure that is:
1: good motor, got full compression?
2: spark timed,
3: spark advances off scale past 3000 RPM , does it? if not limphome. is happening, (lost power is normal for LIMP)
4: injectors clogged.?
5: dead or weak mAF, (use a scan tool check the maf)
6: clogged air filter.
7: the above if for bogging, and not flooding, (sparks not wet or black with fuel)

each of the above , has tests. ask for help
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeznutts77 View Post
ok thought i fixed the stopped running issue, ok sorta did. it runs has 34 psi at the filter, drives good after 55 but gettin to 55MPH it falls on its face. changed dizzi cap and wires but to no avail.

congrates a working fuel gauge..
and good pressure if running, and low if not.

Ok , Rome was not built in a day... old cars , are finicky. (i guess you are in the salt belt or spent long time there>? , Rust?

your car bogs.
with good fuel pressure that is:
1: good motor, got full compression?
2: spark timed, to under hood sticker data stated?
3: spark advances off scale past 3000 RPM , does it? if not limphome. is happening, (lost power is normal for LIMP)
4: injectors clogged.? 1 or all. (do the balance test)
5: dead or weak mAF, (use a scan tool check the maf)
6: clogged air filter.
7: the above if for bogging, and not flooding, (sparks not wet or black with fuel)

each of the above , has tests. ask for help

i presume you do not have full power up hills.
bad fuel?

http://www.fixkick.com/power-index.html
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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heres the last post we had goin
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...ed-runnin.html
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96 jx 5 speed 1.6 16v "cold" air and try y header, underdrive crank, kawasaki zx6 muzzy muffler, gm alt kit.
96 "sport" 3spd auto 1.6 16v 2dr geo tracker all stock









It might not b fast but it looks it!!!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=xxx;359545]congrates a working fuel gauge..
and good pressure if running, and low if not.yup got the one u said but it fills with fuel but works lol

Ok , Rome was not built in a day... old cars , are finicky. (i guess you are in the salt belt or spent long time there>? , Rust?

your car bogs.
with good fuel pressure that is:
1: good motor, got full compression?yup last post tested at 190 and 170 on all
2: spark timed, to under hood sticker data stated?yup timed right on
3: spark advances off scale past 3000 RPM , does it? if not limphome. is happening, (lost power is normal for LIMP)no stays in spec no ses either
4: injectors clogged.? 1 or all. (do the balance test)swaped out for another set and ran cleaner thru 3 tanks
5: dead or weak mAF, (use a scan tool check the maf)test ed good 002 at idle and 053 up hill floored
6: clogged air filter.have cone and cleaned it
7: the above if for bogging, and not flooding, (sparks not wet or black with fuel)

each of the above , has tests. ask for help

i presume you do not have full power up hills.if the hill is at start no but if im at 55 n up it goes no prob
bad fuel?many tanks later
[QUOTE]

o ordered cap wires and rotor and did a dizzy swap
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96 jx 5 speed 1.6 16v "cold" air and try y header, underdrive crank, kawasaki zx6 muzzy muffler, gm alt kit.
96 "sport" 3spd auto 1.6 16v 2dr geo tracker all stock









It might not b fast but it looks it!!!!
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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[quote=deeznutts77;359556][QUOTE=xxx;359545]congrates a working fuel gauge..
and good pressure if running, and low if not.yup got the one u said but it fills with fuel but works lol

Ok , Rome was not built in a day... old cars , are finicky. (i guess you are in the salt belt or spent long time there>? , Rust?

your car bogs.
with good fuel pressure that is:
1: good motor, got full compression?yup last post tested at 190 and 170 on all (you abandoned it, like max said)
sorry i can remember them all...

2: spark timed, to under hood sticker data stated?yup timed right on
3: spark advances off scale past 3000 RPM , does it? if not limphome. is happening, (lost power is normal for LIMP)no stays in spec no ses either The ECU does not always throw DTC for limphome, if it gets lost, i can not throw a code. ecu must know whats wrong to post a code.some times.
4: injectors clogged.? 1 or all. (do the balance test)swaped out for another set and ran cleaner thru 3 tanks (only the test proves if all 4 work right,not swaps. sonic cleaned excepted by pro shop)
5: dead or weak mAF, (use a scan tool check the maf)test ed good 002 at idle and 053g/s up hill floored
6: clogged air filter.have cone and cleaned it
7: the above if for bogging, and not flooding, (sparks not wet or black with fuel)

each of the above , has tests. ask for help

i presume you do not have full power up hills.if the hill is at start no but if im at 55 n up it goes no prob im not clear here.
bad fuel?many tanks later
Quote:

o ordered cap wires and rotor and did a dizzy swap
oh, at 55mph you have full power, up hills,
this is not tip-in bog (a bad TPS)
its low injection rates, at mid speeds.
not fuel pressure
not cat clogged

seems the maf is weak or induction leaks?
what is the LTFT at light cruise.?
is it near zero/. or way off. ?+25% is air leak in the mAF induction path.
is closed loop happening at light cruise, scan tool?

I'm not sure exactly where the bogs happen, when, duration, etc.
this is key to diagnosis....

with a scan tool you can see if all inputs look normal. (and injector times)

like max said
a list of new parts?
a list of old parts tried,?
a list of test done and not done.
id be all over scan data, for sure at the malfunction point.

loss of power?. (no DTCs P30x stored) or pending>?
lost hot , i bet. and not ever cold
no loss of power, WOT.

spark tips black or ? white or ?
Fuel Milage, MPG?

Did you know that some CAI mods, make the MAF go nuts (page 40 in hartmans book below has this warning_)
read the chapter in Jeff Hartmans book on that.... he goes through that heavy, can happen below WOT only too.
one car they had the fan caused so much turbulence that the MAF went crazy.... I can link the page, easy.
"wind blast and fan effects" in the engine bay.

which brings up my joke, put it back to stock, then break it.
then you know why , it's broke.....
and a bouncing MAF will kill it. soon. as many CAI mods do,...
its only $1000 each too. (suz price)

there is a resonator there too, tuned to your 16v induction pulses... its not just for grins... See the reasons there... too. below. in the book.
this resonance , comes in to big play over 1/3 throttle "quote PRO FLO technolgies"
not only that they try to keep the air flow LAMINAR. that is going straight into the MAF, by Design. The intake on the MPI car is not just pipe, not at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow

page 167 covers MAF tricks.
1: tap sensor, does the voltage change, yes, bad,
he then goes to great lengths showing how to find odd MAF readings.
what does he do , he monitors injector pulse widths.
a: sees the do not increase with throttle foot movement under load. (maf or TPS issues)
b: sees it go way long, pulse, excessive, do to jumping to limphome , on the fly (maf drop outs?)

The MAF is a complex sensor, in fact the most complex on the vehicle. it can be fooled very easily and is very very hard to discover that fact. (dead is easY)
with a logging scan tool and maf logged and Injector pulse widths at same time. sure....
and TPS angle logs. if the injection rates are not right, look for bad ECU inputs.

Jeff is king!
Amazon Amazon

case in points:
I tip-in throttle fast but short. i see injector not react fast (PW = longer, on closer examinations (tps graph plots) i see TPS dropping out on tip-in, plotted in real time..
oops a bad TPS.
or
I tip-in throttle and the TPS causes the enrich fast, but then the MAF bogs. then catches up. it delays or is acting odd ,not a linear flat increase (MAF issues) CAI?
The TPS gives the first power surge, followed by the maf, mafs are slower, but not that much. just a 1second or less.
The MAF TPS and senors must all work good to get power in all modes of driving
this includes, fully clean and working injectors.
if the injectors pulses are reacting properly (per above) and it bogs the injectors are failing. (or some very odd loss of fuel pressure on the fly)

keep in mind the when you accelerate the MASS air flow is very accurate (stock) and the non closed loop operations (accel) is totally dependent on that 1 sensor.
after that first enrich mode. messing with it , in any why , is a big mistake in my opinion,.

Last edited by xxx; 01-30-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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took the injectors out of the 4dr witch is runnin good still the same. if im goin 55+ and theres a hill it has no prob but if i stop and try the hill it hops n skips. yes its a warm issue runs good when cold. comp test 170 170 190 195. maf test 002 idle and 053 floored. this truck is the 2dr and totaly stock. goes to close loop and ltft is 000% bank 1 and 008% bank 3 crusing and 007% bank 1 and 015% bank 3 at idle. plug tips white and mpg 25. loss of power at wot cold no, wot warm from start loss yes, wot above 55 loss no. bogs if i push the gas to much, its acting like a bad tps cause if i lift i can stop it and get up to speed no jack rabbit starts for me.
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96 jx 5 speed 1.6 16v "cold" air and try y header, underdrive crank, kawasaki zx6 muzzy muffler, gm alt kit.
96 "sport" 3spd auto 1.6 16v 2dr geo tracker all stock









It might not b fast but it looks it!!!!
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeznutts77 View Post
took the injectors out of the 4dr which is running good still the same. if im going 55+ and there's a hill it has no prob but if i stop and try the hill it hops n skips. (explain? this , expand)


yes its a warm issue runs good when cold. comp test 170 170 190 195. maf test 002 idle and 053 floored. this truck is the 2dr and totally stock.
but has CAI , right??? not stock,?? that is, the intake system is no longer stock
a CONE FILTER IS NOT STOCK, not in the least.!!!!



goes to close loop and ltft is 000% bank 1 and 008% bank 3? cruising and 007% bank 1 and 015% bank 3? at idle.
only B1S1 counts there are no bank2 or bank3? bank 2 is v6 engine second bank. This is an I-4 motor , only 1 bank, on I-4 motors.
I-4 = inline 4 banger.
S1 sensor 1 controls AFR, but when you accelerate the 02 sensor is not used at all .... only the MAF sets AFR , accelerating (and the TPS tip feature)




plug tips white and mpg 25.
loss of power at wot cold no,

wot warm from start loss yes


, wot above 55 loss no. bogs if i push the gas to much, its acting like a bad tps, cause if i lift,foot, i can stop it(the bog) and get up to speed no jack rabbit starts for me.
Great INPUT !!!

the TPS is bad, plot the TPS with the scan tool, see it glitch.
the TPS must produce linear ramp of voltage 1 for 1 with right foot
if it drops out or glitches high, its a bad tsp.
you can even test the TPS parked,, keyon, engine off, like my obd2 shows !
a TPS that is worn, has bad carbon (resistor) that is bad.
when you move your right foot fast, the TPS most rise fast (1 for 1)
the ECU sees that ramp (voltage ramp) and calls up ENRICH MODE.
seems yours does not?

there are 5 ways to prove a bad TPS
1 ohm meter, wiper to ground pin, (it glitchs, its bad)
2 DMM volts. from TP pin to ground, same.
3 Analog meter, same.
4 DSO same. (scope tests rule the world see fast glitches, and early fails)
5 SCAN tool plots (really is best as it shows what ECU SEES )


the pin to monitor is here.
pin 1 is ground
pin 3 is Throttle angle, this pin must never glitch. monitor this.

this is a very expensive part, that is why i go to this detail...... see?


Last edited by xxx; 02-01-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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the TPS , must not glitch , that is drop to zero when you tip-in the throttle
if the TPS fails to work right, the ECU does not go to accel, Enrich mode
and the engine will bog......
i presume the bog can be cured at any time , (hot) by using WOT , the moment the bog happens, this proves the MAF works (mafs are slow, give it time) and TPS bad.


see those spikes, glitches on the right, using a scope?

all tps end up like this, ALL. ! and all do the same thing,, a bog at the point of the glitch.

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