96 Tracker High Idle (1500 rpms when warm)

[Tracker man]

Hello to everyone, I have been reading here for awhile but decided I needed to be a member.
First I have been trying to fix an high idle (around 1500 rpms warm) on my 96 16v tracker for about an week now. Next is a list of what I have tried to solve the probelm. I have no CEL and the vehicle runs very well besides the high idle. I have did a tune-up besides a new cap and set the timing to specs. I have cleaned the ISC and EGR valve and checked for vacum leaks. The only part I havent cleaned is the IAC (under the tb) but this may be my next step. I have done the stall test on the EGR and it will kill the motor so I assume it's good. Now for the test that I don't understand my results is the ISC pinch test. When I pinch the air line it makes no change but when I cleaned it the coil had 13 ohms and could watch it move. I think I have a vacum leak or problem but can't find it (used carb cleaner) with no rpm change. I do have a question about the little 90 that comes out of the top of the tb? When I remove this line I get no vacum is this normal, because the two lines toward the front (the ones that go to the vss I believe) of the intake has plenty of vacum. Since this is an open cavity I dont understand why I dont have vacum at the ISC or the little 90 on top of the tb. I believe I have an vacum problem but cant prove it yet.Thanks for any advice or help in advance.

[Jarpaa]

Hello Tracker man,

Sounds I have same kind of problem (and car) as you describe. My idle don't want to go under 1500rpm, even the engine is warm. Engine is running well but quite high idle.

I havent yet tried to solve the problem, but I will. Sorry I can't help you at the moment. There is quite a cold weather outside at the moment (-25 Celsius), so I want to wait warmer conditions first, until I can be sure the engine will reach its normal running temperature.

Lets continue problem solving and lets keep each others updated in this forum!

[Tracker man]

Hello Jarpaa,

I'm still trying things and have got it a little better by retarding the timing. I'm still stumped about my vacum problem but can't find any leaks what so ever. Maybe between both of us and help from others in the forum be can fix our problem.

[Jarpaa]

I'm wondering could this high idle be consequence of my heater core repair work, which I just finished couple of days ago. Car was several days without coolant and negative battery cable removed. Anyway I will start to find the problem by investigating if there is any engine fault codes. Check Engine light is working as it should and goes off after ignition. But now there is still too cold weather to do anything (still -25 degree celcius). Today I started cold engine and rpm was 1500 and running steady. Then I drove longer route to get engine warm, but no effect, idle stays 1500rpm.

[xxx]

96 tracker, usa, calif, or real canada e28 tracker?
read my bad idle page.

Originally Posted by Tracker man

Hello to everyone, I have been reading here for awhile but decided I needed to be a member.
first off idle is only a symptom, and is usually not bad idle controls but bad engine, spark or fueling.
First I have been trying to fix an high idle (around 1500 rpms warm) on my 96 16v tracker for about an week now.

i added key words to your post.... so...
Next is a list of what I have tried to solve the problem. I have no CEL (running but lamp works) and the vehicle runs very well besides the high idle.
very good input, runs well. !! thanks.

I have did a tune-up besides? a new cap and set the timing to specs. I have cleaned the ISC and EGR valve and checked for vacuum leaks. The only part I haven't cleaned is the IAC (under the tb) but this may be my next step.
I have done the stall test on the EGR and it will kill the motor so I assume it's good.


Now for the test that I don't understand my results is the ISC pinch test.

When I pinch the ISC air line it makes no change (its bad)

but when I cleaned it the coil had 13 ohms and could watch it move. (try 12vdc and see if it moves, see my video on that. 1 second 12v rest for 10 sec, repeat)

I think I have a vacuum leak or problem but can't find it (used carb cleaner) with no rpm change.
the 16v has VAST leaks potentials, intake valves all the way to the MAF, all leaks hot, net lean, and bogging and bad idle (low) all hoses, even the main induction hose (pipe) MUST NOT LEAK any air what so ever. (in our cars, we see it leak with the scan l)

I do have a question about the little 90 that comes out of the top of the tb? 90?
be more clear on parts touched or removed. you do know the 16v , you must ever pull any hoses or it goes LEAN pronto , right?
dont do that.
When I remove this line I get no vacuum is this normal, (yes) because the two lines toward the front (the ones that go to the vss I believe) of the intake has plenty of vacum.
I can see you think the 8v works like a 16v they are totally alien to one another, your ECU measure AIR FLOW (mass in USA) and is not vacuum sensed injection , like 8v its air flow sensed
so you you breach the path, you just made a huge mistake,its not a 8v at all../
only lines below the throttle plate suck 19 inches of vacuum
above the throttle plate (butterfly) only a tiny bit of air flows and no discurnable vauum at idle, in fact air does flow and the MAF ,not VSS measure this exact air flow at idle, at all times.


Since this is an open cavity I dont understand why I don't have vacuum at the ISC or the little 90 on top of the tb. I believe I have an vacum problem but cant prove it yet.Thanks for any advice or help in advance.

im not sure what 90 means...... if only you said......
the 16v has a side draft TB,
it has a huge pipe, to the MAF , this pipe and all sub pipes must be 100% NOT CRACKED in any way , (close inspections here, will solve that travesty in this air density system.


The ISC not sucking , this is easy,
its stuck closed
the ports are blocked
the ISC is being commanded close, but the huge air leak (in the plenum) prevents the ISC from sucking air.
if the ECU closes it 100% and the idle is too high, it can not close it more, its closed now 100%
to prove this , just remove the isc connector (do not force any locked connectors, do NOT) use the unlock tab, suzuki does not sell this part. (conn)
then you see that the idle is still too fast, right? that is because the spring in the ISC closed it,, you say that as you cleaned it. and stroked it as you cleaned, it.
now with motor idling, way too fast , apply 12vdc just to the ISC only.
bang, huge 400 rpm rise,, do so only for 3 second max , as not to overheat the ISC coil,, its rugged but do not leave 12vdc full time on this part.
so now you know the ISC works
it closes, (can the air line is dead)
it opens and screams
so , you know know the plenum has a breach, for sure.

that was easy so far, right?

my bad idle page covers an easy test if the IAC,
using clay or duct tape.

you breach the TB horn Tube. (pull it)
then block the iAC rectangular port, inside the air horn.
then un-breach the induction, as you must never run the car breached.

off my bad idle index page for

here is the 96 usa tracker page ON TOPIC
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/16v-idle.html


what to do on any 96 (no scan tool , right. and sadly)
is
make sure no air leaks in that huge pipe on top. nor its sub pipe (PCV hose, nor the other near it)
the maf needs to read the correct volts for idle , per my maf page (has fsm quotes and my tests)
make sure all hoses, are routed like the underhood vacuum map shows!
inspect all vacuum hoses for cracks and blockage, and all nipples to same, that the vacuum sources all still suck at idle)

my page, shows, you blocking all normal air paths, these are called legal air.
the bleed screw
the closed throttle. it is 99.9% closed at idle and must never be re-adjusted (see screw blocking device stopping mr. PO (mad))
the IAC must be closed and water must be over 150f and for sure 180f and holding, if the valve dont close ad 158f, its BAD !
the iSC must open and close under power and close with no power.

if the idle is still high with those normal paths blocked, you have a huge plenum leak.

[xxx]

my wild guess is that little 90 1/8 inch nipple,
means the EGR ported vacuum port?, (that port is closed at idle) due to rule 1, egr is never active at idle, and can not be for this this physical fact.
open hood of car, look, up, see parts and names
or look here.

no air leaks here, even the ISC main hose can leak, bad news that.

part 42?
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/96-16L-plumb1w.jpg

http://www.fixkick.com/my96-16v/engine2.jpg

[xxx]

retarding the timing is dead wrong
you just lied to the ECU,
it now can not advance correctly, because it can not see that lie.

see?
this is no carb car, set the timing to spec and lets find the leak.
it's not hard,
best practice is , easy tests to harder, see?

so far only 1 test done, 1 pinch. on iSC.
but is very revealing to me.

[Bex]

MIght want to advise what your idle is at cold start up - also 1500 rpm or higher? Does the idle reduce at all from the cold start idle? The IAC (on the tb) is open when you first start up, and should slowly close (and cover the port on the right side) as it moves forward.
You can also take the ISC (solenoid) off the car and clean it with carb cleaner. There is a little plunger inside it that vibrates 20x a second - if this is stuck/dirty, etc., it won't work, even if the circuit is ok.

[xxx]

yes what does warm mean (hot tube , tap , warm or near boiling warm) night /day.??
as always, hot means 180F and holds there, (the nums stamped on the stat show reality)
if not 180F, all bets off, but id bet car has 10 problems
not the least of which is wrong ECU, or bad ECU.

post ECU partnumber, so we can tell you the facts.

[Tracker man]

Ok guys first it is a canada made 16 valve engine.
Next you are correct on the 90, it goes to the EGR port.
I also put 12 volts to the ISC when I had it off the tracker and watched it move when I cleaned it.
Ok, when I start the tracker cold it idles at almost 2000 rpms for about 5 seconds then drops to around 1500 rpm. Once the motor warms to about halfway between hot and cold ( it has a new 180 stant thermostat) the idle will drop to about 1000 rpm. The main problem is if I drive say 10 miles and stop to park the idle will be around 1500 rpms. I can kill the engine and wait a few minutes and restart and the idle will return to around a 1000 rpms. I can actual adjust the ISC and air bleed and get the idle down to 800-900 rpms but when I drive it and park it will raise to 1500, but I can kill the engine and restart it most times it's back to a normal idle. I will post the ECU part number tomorrow. It has me stumped but I'm willing to try some of ya'lls suggestions to try to solve this problem. Thanks for any all help.