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Old 12-23-2012, 01:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Red face 97 1.6l MAF sensor story

I just thought I could share what I went through with my MAF Sensor.

On one cold day, like -10 or so, I started the engine, and it was struggling like hell. No unusual smoke. I went for my short ride and it was struggling so hard! No power at all at WOT, some at midrange.

I turned it off, and the next time I started it, it was running fine, but with the SES light on.

A couple of days later, I got my hand on a scanner tool and got that P0102 DTC (mass of volume air flow circuit low input). I cleared the code, started the engine again and the code came back within seconds. So I went straight to the MAF and tested its leads. Following are the informations I could gather from here and from my testings.

The sensor has 3 leeds: ground, signal and +12. Impedance between signal and ground is pertty close to 1 MOhms. Mine tested fine so the wiring is okay.

Next, I tested the sensor. I wad to remove its cover so I could have access to the leads with the connector attached. I broke some plastic doing this, the cover is sealed with silicon. I attached the voltmeter to the ground and signal leads.

So with engine on and idling, it read around 0.3V. Way too low I guessed. I made the engine rev some more and the reading would not change.

The MAF is definately bad. I took it out, looked for a new one and OUTCH!!! The darn thing is almost worth the entire car!!! Used ones are more affortable even though still expansive at around 100$... So I took it in, and decided to open it and see if there's something I could fix myself.

After some time, I've been able to test the resistive wire itself and other components inside. As far as my electronics knowledge goes, the resistive wire, the two big resistors, the transistor inside, the solders, the diodes, they were ALL fine. The resistive wire even changed its value with varying temperature.

So I reassembled the sensor, redid the solders while there, and put it back into the tracker and... Well nothing changed. Stuck at 0.3V.

Now I've figured the electronics are gone. Since it's almost all surface mounts plus a proprietary Mitsubushi chip, I gave up at that point. I'm gonna get the wallet out and hope there is some place here with a MAF sensor that's open in the holidays

Meanwhile my MPG is crap, and I read here and elsewhere it's better not to run it for the catalytic converter might burn/melt.

I'll come back and give some feedback when I put another MAF sensor in.

Hope this helps somebody one day
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Old 12-23-2012, 06:44 PM   #2 (permalink)
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you wrecked a $1000 sensor
read backprobing on my page and the MAF testing page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerther View Post
I just thought I could share what I went through with my MAF Sensor.

On one cold day, like -10 or so, I started the engine, and it was struggling like hell. No unusual smoke. I went for my short ride and it was struggling so hard! No power at all at WOT, some at midrange.


I turned it off, and the next time I started it, it was running fine, but with the SES light on.

A couple of days later, I got my hand on a scanner tool and got that P0102 DTC (mass of volume air flow circuit low input).

102 means , insanely dead output. is never wrong. clean it with out touching it, i use, crc maf cleaner at 6 inches distant......!!!!


I cleared the code, started the engine again and the code came back within seconds. So I went straight to the MAF and tested its leads. Following are the informations I could gather from here and from my testings.

The sensor has 3 leeds: ground, signal and +12. Impedance between signal and ground is pertty close to 1 MOhms. Mine tested fine so the wiring is okay.

Next, I tested the sensor. I wad to remove its cover BAD so I could have access to the leads with the connector attached.
wrong

I broke some plastic doing this, BAD the cover is sealed with silicon. great ,you sealed its fate if good.. will leak water.
I attached the voltmeter to the ground and signal leads.

So with engine on and idling, it read around 0.3V. Way too low I guessed. I made the engine rev some more and the reading would not change.
ITS DEAD> and power is good. the ecu using a hyper precision resistor
on the MAF output to ECU input. of 1000.0000 ohms.
there is no way the ECU will be bad. here.

The MAF is definately bad. I took it out, looked for a new one and OUTCH!!! The darn thing is almost worth the entire car!!! Used ones are more affortable even though still expansive at around 100$... So I took it in, and decided to open it and see if there's something I could fix myself.
it is complex hot ire system.


After some time, I've been able to test the resistive wire itself and other components inside. As far as my electronics knowledge goes, the resistive wire, the two big resistors, the transistor inside, the solders, the diodes, they were ALL fine. The resistive wire even changed its value with varying temperature. it has more than that, CC currentsupply and DIff amp
and a power supply, 3 more things,and are not replaceable.


So I reassembled the sensor, redid the solders while there, and put it back into the tracker and... Well nothing changed. Stuck at 0.3V.

Now I've figured the electronics are gone. Since it's almost all surface mounts plus a proprietary Mitsubushi chip, I gave up at that point. I'm gonna get the wallet out and hope there is some place here with a MAF sensor that's open in the holidays

Meanwhile my MPG is crap, ITS IN LIMPHOME MAF MIMIC MODE.

and I read here and elsewhere it's better not to run it for the catalytic converter might burn/melt.

I'll come back and give some feedback when I put another MAF sensor in.

Hope this helps somebody one day
see my MAF page and my buy maf page

How to-test the induction Air meter.

get the rebuilt at ROCKauto.... with a gaurantee, no ebay crap for 100

hard to find parts, some are very hard !
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well after going through your page, i conclude my MAF was dead anyways.

I went out today, lucky to find an open place, and I went through like a mile in two feet of snow, and found myself a MAF for 40 bucks.

Well this one seems dead too: DTC still comes back right after clearing it. I'll probe it following your nice page and maybe clean it also but I'm pretty sure it's dead.

Mine was already replaced by a previous owner, and the one I got today was also a replacement. I'm begining to think those sensors are really fragile, and if they realy are, 1000$ is an unbelievable real ripoff!!

As for me, I went to rockauto. I bought there a couple of times but 300$ for the sensor is too much for me. I plan on replacing the car in the next year so anything that'll last that long will be fine.

one detail though. On the +12v pin of the connector, I measure battery voltage when the engine is off, but when it's on I measure like 14.5v. Is the sensor made to sustain that?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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all great questions
most devices on the car all are rated for alternator max , about 15v.
and more... usually (rule of thumb) up to 19v. not much more. sustained.!
some can handle 100v very short surgers"spikes". called load dump surges.

but 15v is 100% normal for charging the battery.

the MAF has only 3 pins
with the 1000 ohm load on output (ecu input to ground is that location)
and 12vdc power
it must produce the output on my page , key on. not started.
if not it,s bad.
yes,id too beat the bushes hard to save $300 no lie...
id be pounding them hard.

i think the ecu can not ever short that pin, (short of lightning damage)
the mafs are very old now,...long service....

key on
The voltage observed should be 1.0–1.6 volts.
ldle
1.7–2.0 volts)

2 of 3 tests. both fail.
maf is gone.

the DTC throws at below, DTC Low fails below 0.64vdc


test 3 with my shop vac (sucking never blowing)
was 3v output.
in the car even more can be attaind, up hill woT , !

a dead maf ,gets you to limphome and sucks fuel like mad.
mpg killer. top.

i do hope you find a good one. and cheap... be patient ,finding good used
suzuki parts gets harder every day, as entropy takes its toll.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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You've got a point, 97 is 15 yars ago

Since everything is closed here for holidays, I'll have to run it in backup mode for the next few days. I haven't much road to do but still, do you have any recommendations on how to run it and lower the chances of getting things worst, like burning the catconv?

It's -15 celcius here. I guess that helps for the overheatings.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerther View Post
You've got a point, 97 is 15 yars ago

Since everything is closed here for holidays, I'll have to run it in backup mode for the next few days. I haven't much road to do but still, do you have any recommendations on how to run it and lower the chances of getting things worst, like burning the catconv?

It's -15 celcius here. I guess that helps for the overheatings.

like all new cars 96+ the CEL flashes, (means the rich fuel is melting the cat ) and the op guide says, slow down and remove that heavy boat.
the more fuel you burn (waste) the hotter the cat gets, and it can glow
red hot.

lots of mafs are blow up by:
age.
letting bounce with CAI kits, (floats with factory mounts missing)
touching the hot wire
over charging events ,a many.
hit it too close with the maf cleaner.
oil gauze air cleaners that coke up the hot wire, and damage it.
too much offroad (bouncing)

if we can find 10x, $40 good maf's we can make some easy cash..

58B MAFs are not all that easy to find
find a wrecked one is the only hope. (or a 16v with a dead A/T ,abandoned)

car-parts.com did you look here.?
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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At the moment, no red CEL light on mine (Check Engine Light right?) Only yellow SES light.

I thought of that. If it wasn't of the snow and the freezing temperature, I would have gotten back there to get all MAFs I could find and sell them back. Or maybe keep them all so I have some spare nearby :P

I took a look at car-parts.com yesterday, and they found some three places near me with the sensor. One of the place is where I went this morning. there are two other places left, but they are closed until thursday. Nice site by the way, it's now in my bookmarks

So I'll drive gently and I'll try not to push it too hard on the road...
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i just know you will find one,
yes,CEL flashing is special warning, Cat killer

i glad there are more at your locals. you may be very lucky and snag a
good one.....

all the best to you and happy holidays.

may be santa will drop one down the chimney in foam wrap.
LOL
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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thanks a lot! Happy holidays to you too and thanks for all the information!
I'll post some more when I get another one
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:48 AM   #10 (permalink)
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your welcome
i wish i had a data sheet on that stock MAF sensor. (gr/sec verses voltage)
it has log curve output , non linear. 1.5 to 4.5v.
if we had this I could design a cheap processor, device that would allow
you to use a generic (cheap) MAF. A/D >>>CPU >>>table >>> D/A

i'd make a lookup table matix and do the conversion there.
there are 3 ways to do that.. one other is a DSP chip.

the ecu limphome/MAF-mimic? how you car even runs,with out this the engine
would be dead.

uses RPM , and TPS to guess air flow and is very crude and very rich.

dont forget you can bench test the mAF with a 1000 ohm resistor on the output.

i do know one guy who tool a known maf and then put it inline with his.
a poor mans flow bench,
then could plot his, and find one that matches off a alien wrecked car.

a calibrated flow bench is not easy to make, if we had one , we could discover
our MAF and then do match ups.
even if the pumbing is wrong....we could adapt that..
just brain storming this.... always wanted to do it....

cheers.
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