Hello Everyone,
So Here is my Second Post and Thanks to all that answered my first post. I have learned so much from this forum...First the stats: 1992 Suzuki Sidekick 2dr 4wd 1.6L 8v TBI Manual Canadian Built, California Model 103,XXX miles. I just bought this three weeks ago and still cannot get it to start. I bought it from the orginal owner, she lives down my street here in Los Angeles, CA. Car is in Great shape and has been well taken care of.
I believed what the owner had told me that her mechanic looked at it and thought it was not getting fuel..bad fuel pump. I went ahead and changed the fuel pump (w/factory part...way$$$) and also the fuel filter. drained all the old fuel out. I read about the clicks of the fuel relays and the slight 3 sec hum of the fuel pump...it is doing all this. The car cranks...is getting spark. It kinda runs for a split second with starting fuel. I hooked up the noid light..not getting any light..nothing. Am I hooking up the noid correctly by disconnecting the 6 wire connector and then hooking up the noid to the two sockets that are supposed to go to the injector? When i turn the key the check engine light comes on, cant keep it running enough at all to see if the CEL goes out.
Two days ago I called the Dealership in Van Nuys, they said they did not have a mechanic to work on it (what ???). So i called the suzuki dealership in Glendora and they took it. They called today and they are "stumped." The mechanic there does not even have the Shop Manual. I just bought a shop manual from ebay, should be here in a few days. Chilton manual which i bought is not enough info. So, Friday I will have it towed back to my house...I dont know what else to do. Does anyone know of a good (great?) mechanic in the Los Angeles area that knows how to work on the Sidekick's ???
I know how to work on cars and have worked on them before...should i try to diagnosis this car myself when i get the Shop Manual? I also read about the dreaded ECM failure on these vehicles...I did not check this. could this be the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Ask me questions and I will respond....
SideKick Mike and not running...yet
Hello Everyone,
So Here is my Second Post and Thanks to all that answered my first post. I have learned so much from this forum...First the stats: 1992 Suzuki Sidekick 2dr 4wd 1.6L 8v TBI Manual Canadian Built, California Model 103,XXX miles. I just bought this three weeks ago and still cannot get it to start.
did you read my nostart page.?
I bought it from the original owner, she lives down my street here in Los Angeles, CA. Car is in Great shape and has been well taken care of.
I believed what the owner had told me that her mechanic looked at it and thought it was not getting fuel..bad fuel pump.
(not so good is huh , Thought and not KNOW? for sure !)
I went ahead and changed the fuel pump (w/factory part...way$$$)
(lots of work and costs on 1 guess, and rumor?)
and also the fuel filter. drained all the old fuel out. I read about the clicks of the fuel relays and the slight 3 sec hum of the fuel pump...it is doing all this.
Good it runs for 3seconds,
The car cranks...is getting spark.
It kinda runs for a split second with starting fuel.
ok it can run as long as you squirt fuel down the air horn.
and will sound good or bad. only you can judged that with ears.
I hooked up the noid light..not getting any light..nothing.
ok 2 things kill the injector, TPS throttle angle wrong, or bad spark read back (does the tachometer go upscale as you crank?) ODD you get the far and NO CEL tests. ?????
Am I hooking up the noid correctly by disconnecting the 6 wire
WRONG ! DEAD WRONG, you just opened the TPS, an this sets WOT.
and all injection is cut. (read my ECU test page)
connector and then hooking up the noid to the two sockets that are supposed to go to the injector? When i turn the key the check engine light comes on, cant keep it running enough at all to see if the CEL goes out. (cel out takes , over 300 rpm sustained)
Two days ago I called the Dealership in Van Nuys, they said they did not have a mechanic to work on it (what ???).
or the tools. its too old, why not read my page and fix it.
read the nostart page.
you did the NOID test wrong.
So i called the suzuki dealership in Glendora and they took it. They called today and they are "stumped." The mechanic there does not even have the Shop Manual.
sure he is , he never saw one in is whole life. they had them but threw them away, real profession that ,huh?
I just bought a shop manual from ebay, should be here in a few days. Great
Chilton manual which i bought is not enough info. So, Friday I will have it towed back to my house...I dont know what else to do.
This is easy, why not ask for help here, and we will guide you to
each fault.
Does anyone know of a good (great?) mechanic in the Los Angeles area that knows how to work on the Sidekick's ???
I know how to work on cars and have worked on them before...should i try to diagnosis this car myself when i get the Shop Manual? I also read about the dreaded ECM failure on these vehicles...I did not check this. could this be the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Ask me questions and I will respond....
SideKick Mike and not running...yet
now here is the answer
if you had read the read me first sticky post, youd have found it.
you didnt.
i have no crank
no start
and found on road dead.
7 ways to fail Cranks-but-no-start
in your case
we just check the ECU.
this time dont pull that connector. killing the TPS, ok?
i will map you out now
i crank and look down air horn, NO fuel, my pressure is at 32psi.
i check the TPS for 2vdc on the TP pin (wiper pin)
its 2v. the TPS is not signally WOT, good,
WOT cuts fuel cranking , its a FEATURE of all ECUs. made.
my tachometer shows needle hit 200 or 300 rpm cranking, a strong battery for sure.
i attach the noid to the injector pins. (back probed)
it flashes.
in my photo i have the TP pin grounded, when i unplugged it. http://kickfix.ac-vw.com/NOID/91-noid-sf1.jpg
and
short B to ground
never accidentally short D to ground or the ECU blows up, a 5vdc trace inside it.
some ECUs pull up the B pin (TP pin or aka, throttle ANGLE)
if that happens, all injections stop
the ECU might flash code for too low TPS, ignore that.
the FSM shows a better way, you extract the 2 injector pins
and then back probe the 2 socket pins while connected to TPS.
it really sucks the injector does not have its own dedictated pins.
you could add them.... then next time, you can work it easier.
best way to test ecu is keep all sensors connected
they make it hard. to do.
sorry for your pain,
macro
fuel pressure over. 30psi , all times...
TPS not signalling wot.?
tachometer moves up scale, as i crank?
injector reads 1 ohm with ohmeter?
noid test passes
ecu passes my 8 test plan above?
how's that for concise.? ask questions for anything not clear?, or elaborations.. can do.
You first need to see if you can get a code 12 from the computer. Here is how to do it: Check Engine Light
As Ranger said, no need to have the car running for this, just put the jumper in, then key to the on position, and see if you can get the CEL to flash codes. Flash pause flash flash longer pause means code 12. All of us with 1995 and older cars have had to change the capacitors in the ECU, as they deteriorate. A $5.00 fix. The ECU governs fuel delivery, so if it is not working properly, the car will just crank.
Thanks BEX, XXX and Ranger88den!!! for responding!
Ok,
I called the dealership and i will have the kick flat bed towed back to my house. The dealer is saying it needs a new ECM, not sure if i believe them. I asked about codes and he did not respond. I dont think they did anything really. They are not charging me one cent and the service guy said his boss told him not to take any more sidekicks! WOW, i had always thought the dealer knew what they were doing, not this time. I have alway taken my bronco to the Bob Wondries Ford dealership and those guys are the best...they no Exactly ehat they are doing.
So, i have read the responses...first thing saturday I am going to pull the codes...should have did that first. Also, go thru the 8 tests that i should have done. I don't thing this kick has a NAG switch...but i will check. I have a fuel pressure gauge....i will check that as well (at the fuel filter location). I will do the NOID test again per XXX direction...I read the three ways to do it...im thinking the load test while back wiring the connection would be best. I visually checked the throttle body area and visually i see the DASHPOT looks damaged. I know what the function of this DASHPOT...I have looked everywhere..Where can I buy a new one??? Or what does Suzuki Dealers call this part???
This kick wants to run....i can feel it..I look forward to any comments and I will keep all involved posted. I will not stop diagnosing this kick untill she runs...it is a must since i need to get it smogged and then i get my tags from the DMV. I forgot to mention that i bought a new locking gas cap from napa auto parts. it is stant brand and was the best locking cap they had. With this cap and the previous i noticed alot of pressure being relieved when i open up the cap...is this normal? it seems more than my f150, bronco or the mercedes. i will check that fuel pressure and see what is going on....should be not too high or not too low...we will see. what a challenge i got my self into..but i am up to it. this kick is going to be my BAJA ride for our vacation house down in baja...i am going to go thru the whole vehicle...everything will be checked and ALL FLUIDS will be changed....let the FUN begin! Just wanted to let you all know that I can work on cars and have done before and with the right direction i can be guided like XXX said. I will get this kick to run! And if i have to rebuild that ECM i will.
Sidekick Mike
Last edited by Sidekick Mike; 11-15-2012 at 02:43 PM.
the person that calls is not the mech ,just a gofur. (mech make the big bucks)
you forget how rare these cars are, , in my town there are 2, and 1 runs.
1000 bronco for every kick made? rare. it's no bronco for sure. "production"
when you get it, post the 8 tests for bad ECU on my linked page
yes the calif kick dont have that NAG. or some wise person castrated it.(a win)
the nag switch has no value. (id bet the inspectors dont even know it exists)
if that gas cap is not with a vacuum breaker the tank will collapse.
click pump on my page see the collapsed tank.
this must be your first car newer than 1980? (whoosh sound is ubiquitous)
this car holds pressure just like a new car. in the tank,
and just like new car, has a vacuum breaker,
so if the temp rises, it goes whoosh. (on open) exhales.
if the the temp drops ,it sucks fresh air , in silently. and cap off is silent.
if the breaker fails its collapses the tank . just after engine dies from lack of fuel.
oh boy, the smog test is very strict there, including a full visual
so if hit has CAI on it , you fail. cold air intake bs.
you have what it takes, motivation..... you will win.
the smog guy in calif will run a tank hold pressure test. (fits on gas cap)
it must hold pressure or it fails, and yours does. good.
Sant is a good brand ,btw.
you will need a new timing belt if hitting Baja.....
also do the sneak a peek on that page, just in case it has slipped now
1: make sure the FI fuses are good. (CEL glows with ECU power)
2: the belt not slipped (tbelt)
3: the TPS pin B at 2v, (not over 3.5) 2 or less better (TBI )
4: tacho swings as you crank.
5: no code 41, 42 for 5-10seconds cranking. diag jumper planted....
it must inject. (watch with eyes.) if 3,4, and 5 are true.
I cannot tell you how many times mechanics have screwed up on these cars - timing them to the wrong cylinder, etc. When you get your car back, first see if the check engine light goes on with the key on. If so, see if you can get it to throw a code 12, as per instructions above. Just a paperclip needed (always amused when mechanics say they are unable to get codes from these 89-95 cars, as they don't have access to a 'scanner'....). If you can't get a code 12 (or any code at all) and your car definitely is a California car, then chances are you need to replace three capacitors in the computer. Info on what caps are needed are on the forum (or ask). And if you cannot solder, any computer geek can do this for you. (I was originally told, years ago, that I needed a new ECU - pah!!) If you can get the code 12, next is to try to see if you can get the car to start using test fuel. If you can, then your problem is on the fuel side of ignition. And a compression test will show you if the car is timed correctly. One step at a time!!
Ok Guys,
Got my kick back from the dealer...what a waste of time and to top it off he asked if I was going to "part it out". That made me mad...if not extremely angry after them not knowing what or how to fix it. anyways...
It has been raining (saturday) all day here in Los Angeles. So not much work but I did do these things. Im in the driveway..no cover.
First, paper clipped the connector...ah ha...turned the key and it flashes code "12" and keeps repeating it. I believe this is a good sign? Sunday I will try it again and do the cranking and see if it changes? I have paperwork from kick fix site to further check it. What i did notice when I cranked it before installing the paperclip is that the tach does not seem to move. It should, right?
XXX: I will go thru the crank no start page...just need good weather. Also, noticed that the gas gauge seems to read the amount of fuel in it whether the key is on or not. Is this ok? Is this normal for a Sidekick? After the fuel pump install..i put about 8 gallons in it. it reads correctly but i would think the fuel needle would go down after turning the vehicle off.? I also changed all the spark plugs (NGK copper core). Should have done that from the beginning. The plugs i pulled out were BAD and worn and gapped double the amount. I have on order a new set of wires. I will check all individually for spark tomorrow. I took off the distributor cap...looks brand new..good quality.
So tomorrow:
1) check each plugs..for spark
2) Check codes again (steady, while cranking, etc) But I do have "12" repeating right now.
3) Sneek Peek timing belt...again have the sneak peek from kick fix. Im curious if this is aligned up. I have a timing light..needs to run first though.
4) FUEL PRESSURE...I needed a connector to connect to the fuel filter>>got it now..I will check.
5) Back probe Fuel injector. Will do it right this time. Yes XXX, what a shame that it shares the same harness with the TPS. I would like to change it someday
all fuses have been checked and the fuses near the battery. I checked the problem grounds. I dont think this car has any wiring problems..plus it is pretty dry out here..
Code 12 from computer - yes, very good.
The fuel gauge will stay where it is when the car is turned off - it will not go down towards empty, etc.
You may want to try to start the car with test fuel (if after putting on wires, gapping plugs to .028", etc., the car still won't start). Also a compression test on the engine will indicate if its timed ok. If you do one, you are looking for about 170psi on all cylinders. Post your results. And yes, the tach is supposed to jump to about 300 rpm when cranking - governed by the brown wire that runs from the tach to the noise suppressor filter located just under the windshield wiper motor.
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1992 Sidekick Won't Start...Please Help Me
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