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Old 11-13-2012, 09:58 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinoman View Post
If you have 10V on A1 then its connected to something, my guess is that you now have no spark. Do you get code 41 while cranking?
Thanks for all the help xxx. Bex no i get a code 12 while cranking all of the power and grounds check out as well as the 5v ref output, the only thing that is currently in question is the input on A1 the problem is my scope only goes down to 20nS/Div so its hard to tell exactly whats going on. i will try and find a way to dummy the A1 input and then try to run a node test on the injector and let you know what the results is.

Thanks Again to everyone for their help and input
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:09 AM   #82 (permalink)
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you never said yet how many seconds you cranked the engine, with the diag
jumper inserted, do it for 5 seconds, min, or 10 max.
the length COUNTS big time !(a firmware rule, the FSM states this clearly) code 41 is lost sig to A1 (8v)

as you can see the sammi uses the suppressor for only the techo, and A/T and cruise. (not sure of sammi has no 4sp and no cruise like kicks, so only runs the silly tachometer
if you look closer, the sammi ECU uses an other pin in the ignitor to do spark
read back, but you dont have a sammi ecu. so.....

im surprised the sammi guys don't answer this ,there are hundreds on this forum
and other forums.
jumper the brown wire ignitor to A1 new ecu. done.
your scope cant do this? here is my $20 scope. if not that scope is useless?
minus coil side.
post the schematic again, and the scope minus lug.
sammi, see pin A6? on kicks A6 is a the power steering overload pin, you need to cut that wire (A6 on a sammi is the ignitor) and wire it to the tacho, brown wire. (called I/P cluster here)
keep in mind , i have no idea what coil, what ignitor and dissy you are running nor how you wired it in to your 56b30 ecu. not at all.....so im limited in my responses, to speculation...



coil sig. mins, the suppressor feeds this sig to the A1 pin. on all kicks 89 to 95
see that plus side signal the ECU monitors that carefully.

5mS / div. ($20 scope + $1 old cell phone cam nets me a DSO , LOL)


last, but here is what it must be, to make 56Bxx happy

Last edited by xxx; 11-14-2012 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:26 AM   #83 (permalink)
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find A6 at the ECU , then follow it to the ends.
P/S switch then its a 91+ harness for a kick
goes to ignitor, its a sammi harness


you have VIN? really>? (post vin, minus last 3 digits.) HLS dont care..

now my technician's guess.
pin a12 is the ignitor drive line, driving the base (gate) of the Ignitor transistor.
and pin a6 , on a sammy 80c ECU, has ground resistor inside the ECU., that grounds the coil allowing the coil to charge.
this resistor is monitored by the ECU for spark.
and is completely different than any sidekick..

here is our ignitor (best i can tell from simple tests) note PULL DOWN !

Last edited by xxx; 11-14-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:47 AM   #84 (permalink)
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i found the sammi fsm online , at same place as 96 kick,
see page 30
the ignitor is self grounding, body?
and A12 is orange and ignitor drive. Gate.
and A6 is just readback (page 30 read it)

and the code 41s works in the sammi 80C ECU, and the rule is 6 fails in sequence. (not 3 seconds as kicks show) i guess you didnt crank long enough. or ECU is bad.

move A6 wire to A1 ecu pin. (the suppressor has same p/n as kick) i have no idea how the A6 pins works in side a sammi ignitor, color OR/B wire. not at all.
http://www.acksfaq.com/90-92_supplement/part2.pdf

Last edited by xxx; 11-14-2012 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:43 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Ok, i went and checked everything again, i cranked the engine for 10 sec and it was still flashing a code 12 i did a scope of A1 and it shows the same thing that you posted. I am out of ideas i really dont want to put a new ecu in this thing only to find out that the ecu wasn't the problem but it looks like I dont have any other choices at this point?
If i were to get a new ECU i would probably go with MEGASquirt ECU as i have another engine that might end up in this crazy machine at some point and i wouldn't want to have to get a second ecu. Would a megasquirt work? and how hard are they to tune?

Thanks again to everyone for your help thus far

Last edited by trouble007; 11-14-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Complete ECU pin read outs for the 56B30:
Attached Thumbnails
89 tracker 8v 1.6l won't run-ecu-pins.jpg  
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:45 AM   #87 (permalink)
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http://kickfix.ac-vw.com/ECU/ECU.html#8V-USA
jump old harness A6 to new ecu A1 ( no guarantee this will work, at all)

there are only 2 things that can cause no injection from THAT eCU (not fuel pressure low...)
TPS pin, at 3.5v or more (WOT signally)
dead pin A1. (you said it looks good, but there is no spec on that....)
i wish i had photo'd it, never did i expect a franken question. here.
on a franken kick , lots more, but bad A1 sig, is it. or ecu is bad.

you never answers my questions.
what dizzy p/n. (stamped on side, 80 prefix ( suz has like 20 dizzy world wide)
what ignitor?
what coil? (round coil?)
all sammi? parts? if yes, why,, the sammi igntor my be totally imcompatible
with the 56B ECU.
ever consider that?
i dont have all the facts on this Frankensammi.
not yet..

put the sidekick dizzy/ignitor and coil on car. then try.?

i say that because , i dont have a sammi ignitor to reverse engineer .
(A6 facts)
91+ parts matrix, suffixes.

matrix IGnitor coil Dizzy
Sam 60G10 80C10 80C10
Kick 64B10 56B10 56B10

id say the ignitor is wrong. (fires ok but the feed back network is wrong)
no code 41s (long crank, dont turn off key method)
says bad ECU !
but it is the wrong ignitor...

megasquirt time...
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:32 AM   #88 (permalink)
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sorry i didn't realize that you needed that dizzy number i can get that for you, i believe that it has the ingnitor that works with the 56b30 as it is a 3 wire ignitor and the already had a signal going to A1 through a spark suppressor. The code 41 test says that its getting the correct signal (flashing code 12). yes it is time for megasquirt it's already in the mail and should be here by the end of next week. (i ordered it last night)

Thanks again to you xxx for all your help.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:42 AM   #89 (permalink)
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id dont need anything, its you with the frankenkick and no bill of materials.. not me... it for you....

RIP one 56B
they cost about $100 (swapped)

Last edited by xxx; 11-15-2012 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:20 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Yes they do, however i don't plan to put a 56b back in. its getting a MS!
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