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Old 10-26-2012, 05:53 PM   #121 (permalink)
xxx
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i leaned the difference for volume and mass at 14.
being rude of a simple typo, sucks.

i was only trying to help him

here OP
is ww suzuki list for this part

http://kickfix.ac-vw.com/sensors/92-...et-plunger.jpg

i will look to see if any other suzuki uses it. world wide.

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Old 10-26-2012, 07:12 PM   #122 (permalink)
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Guys - you already know what's going to happen if you can't play nice.

After being contacted by the original poster, I have decided to re-open this thread - I would appreciate it, if you guys could keep things on an even keel.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:44 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:01 AM   #124 (permalink)
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In a word.... Hallelujah!!!

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Old 10-29-2012, 09:08 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Thanks guys!

Thank you to fordem for reopening the thread

As the OEM air flow meter is proving impossible to get hold of due to an increasing demand we are going to investigate whether we can use an alternative vane type AFM. It may mean modifying the ECU a little to accept a different input from the AFM/temp sender. Rhinoman is going to look at the Mazda MX5 system while we are going to look at Honda AFM's.

Of course, if we can mod' the design a little and keep the costs down it may well help others keep their Vit's out of the knackers yard a bit longer as it looks like some are being broken for spares due to the lack of an AFM alternative. That's a shame!

Bear in mind, those who live in more exotic lands (i.e. not the UK!), your Zook may not have the same systems as the European vehicles. Having said that, if anybody has successfully converted the intake system to an alternative, please let us know!
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:51 AM   #126 (permalink)
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The US was pretty much the only market that didn't get these AFMs. I've been looking around and there some for sale but they are commanding high prices, and while they are available new they aren't cheap at all. Theres a few options that I'm investigating - fortunately being an ECU specialist company opens up a few doors.
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:53 AM   #127 (permalink)
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I wonder if using the equivalent USA ECU for your car, along with the comparable MAF would work??
Rhino would also know what other European markets would use the AFM system - it might be possible to source one in Spain, Italy, etc.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:24 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Default It's been a while...

Well, today is the first day without rain to work on the Vitara after a nasty bout of pneumonia and pleurisy with 'flu

Thanks for your post XXX. I completely understand what you are saying and it doesn't do any harm to check everything again!

So, what have we done today? We very recently sourced a good volume air flow meter for 25 (bargain of the year) and fitted that. Car started and ran just like a little puffing steam train! However, the slightest whiff of throttle and the car cuts out. We can just about manage to get it running at 400 to 600 rpm.

I know it's a repeat but to check we didn't miss anything, off with the radiator, belts and crankshaft pulley again. The crankshaft cam-belt pulley is solid billet steel and in perfect condition. The woodruff key is 100% sound as was the key-way. Line the dimple up with the cast TDC arrow and fit the belt with the 'E' marking on the camshaft pulley lining up with it's marker. No1 and No 4 confirmed at TDC. Fit the auxiliary and timing crankshaft pulley and the timing marks line up at TDC. Perfect. No problems at all with the mechanical timing.

Air flow meter signals conform to specification. Throttle position sensor conforms to specification (including the internal idle switch) as do the coolant temperature sender and Lambda sensor signals.

No blockage in the Catalytic converter as we had disconnected the down pipe from the exhaust manifold to check.

Fuel pressure seems OK (no pressure gauge available) with copious amounts of fuel available when the fuel rail blanking plug is cracked open (alternator not turning and fire extinguisher at hand). I was just about able to control the flow with my thumb but managed a ten foot squirt of fuel when I relaxed my thumb slightly. A good three bar pressure I would say.

The ignition timing is set as close as I can get it manually and in fact the car will only run at this setting (exactly the same position as when the engine was running properly before the problem according to the marks I scribed before I undid it). Move the dizzie a couple of degrees either way and the engine cuts out.

New leads, plugs, dizzie rotor and cap. Swapped with another known good set to check new items were not faulty - exactly the same. The ECM (ECU) has been checked by Rhinoman and is within specification.

It still appears to be an electrical problem in the ignition department. Removing each plug lead in turn results in the engine becoming lumpy and stalling. No difference between plugs. We have a strong spark at cranking speed but I don't know how it reacts to cylinder pressures. Given all this, the only things left to change out are the ignition trigger unit and coil...

I'll be back... (as Arnie S says)
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:53 PM   #129 (permalink)
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13 pages in, and symptoms the same as page 1 or....???? Can you give a recap?
Now you have confirmation that ECU is ok from Rhino, right?
And just out of curiosity, was this car ever retimed? (got as far as the first page in re-reading all). Cylinder #1 is next to the radiator. The timing belt is timed to cylinder #4 firing (compression stroke). The ignition is timed to cylinder #1, and fires 1,3,4,2. The rotor moves counterclockwise on the 16v - I assume that, even though you have a different distributor, theses basics remain the same. The reason why I query this is that you advise that you cannot advance or retard the igntion timing more than a couple of degrees either way, which is unusual.
Not having re-read all, did you ever post compression numbers on this engine?
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:13 AM   #130 (permalink)
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UK Vitara 4WD JLX 5 door, 1995, 1.6L 16v 16B engine.
100 posts. and mostly do to lack of basic engine tool.s

Quote:
Originally Posted by 15thmidlifecrisis View Post
Well, today is the first day without rain to work on the Vitara after a nasty bout of pneumonia and pleurisy with 'flu :

sorry, Me too,,,,nasty (a summer cold for me)

Thanks for your post XXX. I completely understand what you are saying and it doesn't do any harm to check everything again! :
im not sure whats done/right and not,,,,, my post will have overlap.



So, what have we done today? We very recently sourced a good volume air flow meter for 25 (bargain of the year) and fitted that. Car started and ran just like a little puffing steam train! However, the slightest whiff of throttle and the car cuts out.



We can just about manage to get it running at 400 to 600 rpm.


I know it's a repeat but to check we didn't miss anything, off with the radiator, belts and crankshaft pulley again. The crankshaft cam-belt pulley is solid? billet steel and in perfect condition. (yes, the cog is but not the actual pulley.)


The woodruff key is 100% sound as was the key-way.
you now have envy , everywhere ....LOL

Line the dimple up with the cast TDC arrow and fit the belt with the 'E' marking on the camshaft pulley lining up with it's marker.


No1 and No 4 confirmed at TDC.
the cam is set at #4 firing,all valve #4 closed.
Number has nothing to do with the cam setup, ever.
if you see market right x4, it can be no place else but 4.

#1 is only used to time dizzy,which you fail to do.




Fit the auxiliary and timing crankshaft pulley and the timing marks line up at TDC. Perfect. No problems at all with the mechanical timing.
so when you are done #4 has lash, (spec lash) right?
that is what counts, and the lifters, are on the back side of the cam
on #4 (such that jogging the crank, the valves do not move #4)
if not sure see my sneak-a-peek ,and at the end is the Acid tests.


BIG MISTAKE ! not checking compression, immediately after any cam
work,, or lash. unless you like , pound'g head on the wall ,for ever.
BIG error. this step, shows you , I'M GOOD?< I'M wrong? (redo?)
Called VALIDATiON step.... (reinforces you steps..)

Air flow meter signals conform to specification. volts , good.!
MAF good. 58B or 57b air meters.which ever it is.


Throttle position sensor conforms to specification (including the internal idle switch) as do the coolant temperature sender and Lambda sensor signals.
them means it running.....

No blockage in the Catalytic converter as we had disconnected the down pipe from the exhaust manifold to check.


Fuel pressure seems OK (no pressure gauge available) with copious amounts of fuel available when the fuel rail blanking plug is cracked open
means almost ZERO,.. sorry.. 1psi , will flood a garge
but never ever run any EFI Kick. only means pump is not totally dead.
not all pumps just go dead, not even close.
god ,i just love piss tests (not)




(alternator not turning and fire extinguisher at hand). I was just about able to control the flow with my thumb but managed a ten foot squirt of fuel when I relaxed my thumb slightly. A good three bar pressure I would say. ( the human 3 bar meter,,, we'd love a video...."
you like playing with fire.,no?

(a $15 tool , is way cheaper than any trip to the hospital)
(you need to learn how EFI really works. its not like carb that ONLY
needs to keep some silly float bowl full,NOT AT ALL)

Quote:
The ignition timing is set as close as I can get it GUESSING
this is so bad, i cant comment. You really hate tools
can't barrow or rent them?/ really?
i dont care how many marks you or any one made,(but factory marks)
gee....!!!!! i even some time, validate the factory marks, ask why!!!

you dont have $15 timing light, really?

Move the dizzie a couple of degrees either way and the engine cuts out.
i love dizzy spinners... set it to spec, and leave. it. THe LIGHT will not lie.
but the pulley marks can.
when i remove the cam cog with pulley.
i first hold them in my hand ,and personally makes sure the
zero mark on the pulley rim, did not move; IT cAN.
its not hard, ask. (the rubber can slip)
once back all together, (oops) i use a real TDC tool to find if the
mark is really 0. (i have 2 bad pulleys,both stripped out inside. )


New leads, plugs, dizzie rotor and cap. Swapped with another known good set to check new items were not faulty - exactly the same. The ECM (ECU) has been checked by Rhinoman and is within specification.

It still appears to be an electrical problem in the ignition department.
I'D bet you dont know that. sorry...

Removing each plug lead in turn results in the engine becoming lumpy and stalling. (odd if it idles at 400 , how can you tell that?????)


No difference between plugs.
(that's because all 4 missfire badly) <fact

We have a strong spark at cranking speed but I don't know how it reacts to cylinder pressures. (if plugs are new and J-gaped, to .028, they cant misfire)
unless, low cylinder pressure! or timing is way off (ignition).

Given all this, the only things left to change out are the ignition trigger unit and coil... (so why even ask for help?, we can guess all day)
you have already changes vast numbers of part. when will you ,stop
and start testing...... its not hard to do the tests.
do them in the correct order,please.


I'll be back... (as Arnie S says)
i see you love to guess. and just add parts.
what to fix it?
or guess?
no tools no joy.

Here we go again back so square 1, and $20 tool.
compression is what. x4,WIDE OPEN THROTTLE.....that's a goal to achieve
90psi is FAIL.

SPARK!
discover the joy of a timing light.

see the static time to SPEC> (freeze jumper planted)
then
(remove the freeze and see if the timing marks walk off the scale (TO THE LEFT) running. (my guess you can because 3000 rpm , in unobtainable)
if it dont the ECU is stuck in limphome(ask)

Say you suspect spark is bad,( do so)
ever use a test spark plug? after above timing!, never before.
at each end if each spark plug cable and at coil if pre 96. (usa rules)
SEE a bad fat blue/white spark x 4 ,
that is 4 tests, not 1/
if the coil (spark) is still on the fire wall? ,like US 95?, OR any of the above 4
tests,look odd,not steady hits.
then check the coil using the same new test
spark-plug, gapped to .028" 0.7mm (spec) use a real new spark plug. J-plug.

once you have 4way spark, hitting strong, it will run
with test fuel. l DOES IT RUN ON TEST FUEL, (no fuel pump relay)!????

(more bad)
since you don't have tools
you skipped,the injector balance test (this is down after motor and spar
are validated)
and in fact you skipped, all the 7 pump tests and the 8 injector tests
having MPI , and making MPI run, takes hard work.
get a cheap gauge and do the tests.
its your choice.


im sad you did not check the crank pulley outer rim mark,to
be sure it's really still at TDC.
you can do a crude check with a kids, plastic flexi straw. (drinking)
remove #1 spark plug ,insert the straw
turn crank by hand to TDC #1 firing, ) make sure the piston is 100% at the top and the pulley mark is at 0. notch and front cover scale.

(a list of checks)
new, tbelt
lash set to spec. and that at tcd firing, the the piston really is at TDC.
compression at 170psi
dizzy timed to spec,static,time. (use the freeze jumper)
all 4 spark plugs tested for actual real spark.. ( yes,all 4)

if all spark, is good x4 , then it now runs on test fuel. does it?
you start the engine,, (, you did and it runs like carp)
IF YOU ARE HERE?

It runs perfect on test fuel.... (fuel pump killed)
put back the fuel pump relay. and.
this is bad fueling,.... after all ,all the above passes.so.....
ARE YOU HERE?
then we can work the fueling side.

if the motor starts and runs on test fuel,with the fuel pump relay
pulled.
and sounds great, and adding more test fuel, you can keep it going.
and its still sounds perfect.. then why are you condemning.
spark. ????

then lets work that.

bad fueling.

IF you can get here and NOT GUESS. and do the tests we can work
fueling
#1 is fuel pressure, and the other 7 tests.
#2 is the 6 injector tests. (noid lamp checks too)


this the correct order.all other orders, net, palm >forhead slams.

id wish you can find the problem,
keep in mind ,tools can be sold. (after done) so can be ,like almost FREE.
and i can buy the tools for the same , $$$ as 1 hour shop time.
so are FREE.
see?

Last edited by xxx; 01-14-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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