so this is a loosing battle ive been fighting with this tracker since day 1. whats happening is that when you first start it up (after a 5 or more hour sitting period) and when i say cold i mean.. engine temp not warmed up. its still 100*f over here. but when you start it up, it acts like its misfiring on 1 or more cyl. runs very very rough, sometimes gets very very close to dieing, and if you immediately drive off right after your start it it has very low power and if your punch it to the floor sometimes it just bogs down and doesn't accelerate at all. it sounds like a carb issue... but its tbi. here are things ive replaced/repaired in order to try and fix this. nothing has made 1 lick of difference., side note, after 3-5 mins of driving it runs perfect. a side note, the engine has a brand new head, PO did it.
1. replaced spark plugs, ngk gapped to .028
2. new blue ngk wires
3. bosch cap + rotor
4. cleaned egr valve
5. new header back exhaust
6. valve adjustment
7. cleaned throttle body (did not remove)
8. 02 sensor
9. temp sensor of some kind
10. ground cables
and more that i cant think of.
as far as timing goes. i never hooked up a light, but with the crank at 0 the rotor is pointing to #1 o the cap.. if thats any indication of timing.
really i can deal with this like i have been, only issue is winter thinking it will be worse when its -10 outside. and it stinks a bit now on start up, so letting it warm up in the winter would turn the inside into breath of death air. any help is appreciated
11.
What is the cold idle when you first start up? The car needs extra air at cold start - normally when you start, the throttle opener behind the throttle body opens for about 5-10 seconds. Idle is about 2000 rpm. After 10 seconds the throttle opener closes, and you will hear the idle drop about 500 rpm, to about 1500 rpm. Idle is now governed by a mechanical air valve on the left side of the throttle body, and the ISC, an electronic sensor. The mechanical valve slowly closes within 5 minutes or so, slowly dropping the idle down to 800 rpm warm idle. Is this the way your car starts??
oh crap.. Bex everything you said about how it starts at 2000 and slowly works its way down. it exactly what it does. and now that you mention that valve on the side of the throttle body... i did mess with that. i had a high idle issue when warm (valve adjustment i did fixed it) but i didnt know what was causing it so i turned the screw in that valve.. not sure if i just turnedit so it was not touching the throttle lever or what i did.. but i thought that was like a soft throttle return mechanism so revs would stay up between shifts.... i think i disabled it because who needs the revs to stay up between shifts... aww.. man. now i dont have a clue how to readjust that thing... if that even is the cause... i mean it still goes to 2000rpms or more on cold start up and works its way down as it warms up... so im confused sounds like the valve is working.. but im pretty sure i disabled it. maybe not and its another issue.
You should hook up your timing light and get it right on 8* at 800 rpm, as for the throttle opener just turn the screw cw one turn at a time till you get it the way you want, then maybe look hard for some vac leaks.
going to drag back up this old thread.. since the thread i have made no improvements on my issue, ive replaced the intake manifold gasket today because if you throw a bucket of water on the engine when its running it slows the idle like it has a leak.. ive checked everything i can and found nothing. the intake gasket was a bit of a chore with the cleaning of the old off and everything.. it made no difference, thinking about replacing the throttle body gasket next. all of my symptoms to me sounds like a vacuum leak.. you can even hear it... but now since i put on that cold air intake.. its so noisey you cant hear it anymore.. ive checked the vac lines a million times each... i replaced the egr valve and gasket. it really runs like the 02 sensor is seeing un metered air, and the high idle says vac leak and so doesn't the sound. could the pcv valve be an issue? i noticed that the Y shaped hose thats attached to the pcv valve sorta sits loose on the valve.. not like loose loose.. but you can turn it. that rubber is hard like plastic. but it looks like a rare piece.. and i don't know if the pcv system anywhere could cause a vac leak., one of the Y legs is connected to the intake pipe, which can't hold vacuum.. so i don't think the pcv valve can cause a leak any how you look at it, correct me if im wrong. i squeezed all of the vac lines in several places, none made a difference except the map sensor line which instantly killed the engine.. also on a side note.. im holding about a 1100-1200 idle while warmed up, the idle screw is all the way out away from the spring and so isnt the valve that controls the spring during cold start. wondering... what sensor was that the iat? or something that raises idle when you turn the heater on? lights? no matter what i turn on my idle doesn't raise. it might even lower a smidgen. unless i turn on the a/c then it raises 50 or 100. i dont know where this valve is.. is it the one with 2 screws that looks like you could loosen the screws and rock it a bit for an adjustment? just to say this valve is bad.. could it be related to my main issue? sorry for beating a dead horse.. i just HAVE GOT to figure this out. heres something random too.. when i advanced my timing by turning the dist cap.. it raised my idle a bit.. but if it retard it back the morning cold run is way worse. + my mileage drops even more.
I'm not sure, with the electrics on the car, that I would throw a bucket of water on the engine. That being said, did you check the mechanical IAC wax pellet valve on the passenger side of the throttle body, to see if it is stuck in the rearward position (so that the port on the right side of the housing is always exposed?) I believe you advise that you once fiddled around with this. You can try blocking this valve off completely with mechanic's clay or similar, and see if your idle issue changes. With this valve completely blocked off, on a cold start, after the throttle opener closes, you will have to maintain a higher idle with the gas pedal.
wow, ill add CR to the lines. are your symptoms the same.
post them hot,cold, fast slow, idle, and up hills , power , misfiring.??????
what does it do TODAY. good and bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapoM
going to drag back up this old thread..
since the thread i have made no improvements on my issue,
ive replaced the intake manifold gasket today because if you throw a bucket of water on the engine when its running it slows the idle like it has a leak..
(sure or the HV spark wires shorted, dont do that.)
use the proper ways to find air leaks.
carb cleaner
smoke machine (or ultra sonic leak detector (i know you dont have one)
water only works on tiny cracks. or not at all... its not very effective
but if bent on that task, use an old windex bottle, on the intake side only.
ive checked everything i can and found nothing.
the intake gasket was a bit of a chore with the cleaning of the old off and everything..
it made no difference, thinking about replacing the throttle body gasket next.
the TB has a center of body gasket that love to fail, seen it many times.
all of my symptoms to me sounds like a vacuum leak..
you can even hear it...
use an rubber hose to your ear, and you can hear any leak of air, i promise you....
but now since i put on that cold air intake..
well the factory system is not JUST a filter, its a silencer too, and more....
its so noisy you cant hear it anymore.. huh?
ive checked the vac lines a million times each...
if they are new, what's to check,? not cracked , split or melted or cogged.
its not hard to check this.
i replaced the egr valve and gaskets. GOOD ! no egr leaking. Great !
it really runs like the 02 sensor is seeing un metered air, and the high idle says vac leak and so doesn't the sound. right?
if you can get 800 RPM hot and have the idle raise with Headlamps or FAN
on then the ISC is dead. (not bad just not working for the 44 reason
on my page on idle)
always fix idle last. it might be just a victim.
could the pcv valve be an issue?
if the hose is not cracked or valve clogged or vent clogged in side valve cover the PCV is not it.
i noticed that the Y shaped hose thats attached to the pcv valve sorta sits loose on the valve.. not like loose loose..
get a new hose or use heat shrink ubing as a fix. electrically tape temporary.
but you can turn it. that rubber is hard like plastic. but it looks like a rare piece.. IT Is , call suz, we do have the PN. for sure. ask.
and i don't know if the pcv system anywhere could cause a vac leak.
no it can, but it is a leak a controlled air leak , see that PCV valve
its just 2 things, a check valve and an Orifice, that orifice, sets the flow.
but the tubes must not suck fresh air, they must suck , crankcase fumes.
see> fresh air is 20% oxygen but fumes is zero. so can cause faster idle.
if not sucking blowby,
, one of the Y legs is connected to the intake pipe, which can't hold vacuum.. so i don't think the pcv valve can cause a leak any how you look at it, correct me if im wrong. i squeezed all of the vac lines in several places, none made a difference except the map sensor line which instantly killed the engine.. the map saw zero pressure, and ECU went MAX rich (tables) and it stalled.
normal. good map.
also on a side note.. im holding about a 1100-1200 idle while warmed up, the idle screw is all the way out away from the spring and so isnt the valve that controls the spring during cold start. wondering...
running the Dash pot is retracted , (not touching) if not its bad (ask how and what)
the trottle stop screw now sets the idle speed, does it>is the screw backed
all the way out? (the stop screw?)
what sensor was that the iat? or something that raises idle when you turn the heater on? lights?
The ISC has 2 wires. see it? to the Right, (drivers perspective always)\
it sets idle air flow and keeps engine at 800 rpm (after its set) and then raise
the idle speed for 5 events. see my idle speed page. its all there. default
no matter what i turn on my idle doesn't raise. FROM WHERE>?what rpm?
it might even lower a smidgen. unless i turn on the a/c then it raises 50 or 100. i dont know where this valve is..
there are only 2, IAC thermal in TB base and the ISC on the right top side of the TB. seem them> send a photo of yours, who knows, engine swaps happen. huh? seems yours is 90 with y pipe to me.
is it the one with 2 screws that looks like you could loosen the screws and rock it a bit for an adjustment?
you need a book,. working blind is near impossible for any car.
just to say this valve is bad.. could it be related to my main issue?
what is the main issues?? just say it. in fact we can work from that best.
not all the above. (although useful to some degree)
sorry for beating a dead horse.. i just HAVE GOT to figure this out. heres something random too.. when i advanced my timing by turning the dist cap.. it raised my idle a bit.. but if it retard it back the morning cold run is way worse. + my mileage drops even more.
that is normal. and new cars take advantage with this ,, aggressive advance at idle, but not this relic, do not advance the timing. but do do this.
ON THIS CAR THE ECU does not advance or control the DIZZY, ! a relic.
set the static timing per the FSM, see my 90 timing page. fsm pages
then make sure the advancement parts work right.
there are 2, the mech, and the vacuum.
now , post ALL symptoms ,good and bad.?
what the car does hot and cold , idle speeds hot and cold
power
misfiring
driving, flat , cruise. hills. loss of power.
tell the good and bad and thing get way better.
remember i can not drive your car and do that in 5min flat. im blind !
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runs rough only when cold.
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