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Old 05-29-2010, 05:39 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Suzuki Rough idle, terrible acceloration

its a 1989 suzuki sidekick
1.6L/97 CID

made in Japan?
VIN JS3TA01C7K4113959

heres the story, we wanted to get this car up and running and the origional engine was not working good so we swapped it out for a 93 tracker engine and it still ran just as bad, but when we swapped them we kept the same TB and Distrubuter , now with the tracker engine back in the tracker the tracker runs like a dream, and with the suzuki engine back in the suzuki, the suzuki still runs terrible.

things i have observed

when you completly block off the air intake, the engine runs better at idle.
the only way accellorate is to feather the throttle(back and forth)

and i could have vaccume hoses going to the wrong places, because i cant seem to find a diagram thats for this suzuki.

i'm assuming that i have fp issues
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My 89 ran the same when i got it, i blocked off the ISC and IAC, gave it a full tune, vac hoses and it purrs now.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I would not be an advocate of blocking off ISC, etc., as this just kind of masks whatever the problem is (even just a bad idle sensor). It may be that you have more than one issue here.
You say that you didn't change over the timing belt, and both Suz and Tracker ran terrible off that belt, so it is possible that the timing is not calibrated properly. When the car starts, it should rev to about 2000 rpm for 3 or so seconds, governed by dashpot on injector, then idle reduces to about 1500, governed by ISC (idle speed control). When your car warms up, it should idle at about 800 rpm. If the idle when warm is higher, you may have a vacuum leak - these cars hate them. But as both engines ran poorly (and the Tracker runs well in the Tracker), it must be something that both engines were feeding off of, in the original car. So, aside from TB, what about your ECU? Does your ECU light go on when the car starts, and then goes off when the car is running? Have you ever changed the capacitors in the ECU (known to fail in just about every car). Fuel pressure should be checked too, as is also something that both engines would have been using.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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deleted ,
will do this 1 step at a time. way.
no biggy.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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post your symptoms?

what does it do bad.?
what does it do well.?

does it idle correctly cold and hot.?

does the motor reach 180F coolant temperature, as it MUST.?

there, with that we can work the issues.?
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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First off, im going to start by saying that i cannot figure what IAC and ISC mean

Whoever mentioned the car running at a high idle for a few seconds at start up, they were correct, the car runs like a dream, for the 3 seconds after startup.

cat clogged? nope, not an option, no cat, pipe is cut off right after the 90 degree bend... Why? because its been mistreated and now its going to be a mud racer in the baja race at the local fair, if i get it running.

did i play with spark timing? yes, many times.

testing equiptment i own.

compression gauge,
ohm's meter
i have a vintage vaccume gauge, but i doubt it works.



one more thing to add, if the FPR and fuel return line are where i think they are, then nothing is coming out of them, because i cant find where the hose comes from to hook up to it.

and any sensors that are very important, and you think might be hidden to the point were i wouldn't see them and hook them up, inform me
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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ISC = idle switch circuit (idle speed control)
IAT = intake air temperature.
Most obvious problem you have is no cat. The exhaust gas recirculation system (EGR sensor) is set to expect back pressure from the cat, and the car will not run properly without this. Even bad cat is better than no cat at all. Here is great website with all info for you to trawl through: The KickFix Repair Pages, for Sidekicks and Trackers. Kick is right, forget about the engine swap, just concentrate on Sidekick. So, you will need to give as many details as possible as to how car is running (or not running) in order to get really good info. Is ECU light on when ignition on and then off when car starts? Car starts, revs to 2000 for a few seconds then drops to 1500 til it warms up? Idle at 800 rpm steady? Does car warm up to proper running temp? (Proper thermostat at least 180F). Has EGR valve ever been cleaned? Is the EGR diaphragm stuck in a forward position?
This will help you with fuel pressure regulator test (attaches to throttle body): how to test fuel pressure regulator
Aside from the problem you (will) have because of no cat, you should also answer about the ECU light. It could be the car is trying to tell you what is wrong.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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OK its a play thing swamp buggy , that makes all different , huh?
really not DD or bread winner or grocery getter. cool.
context is everything. in machines.
so are expectations? kinda diffr, with diffr. usages.

sorry,
Suzuki has changed the names 3 times so many are . 89-98

IAC idle air controller , my sig link shows a 1 page jargon.
ISC idle speed controller.
some ppl switch names , versus function so we wont worry that.

The IAC is a mechanical ( noelect, conn) device that adds air while motor is cold.
(raises idle as a result ( note the slow climb down cold to hot, this is IAC doing its lil job)
then the ISC, this device is 100% electric
this is a slave acuator to the ECU , the ECU uses it to control idle at all times that idle controls are called for, (never crusing, how ever is uses for other things to complex to discuss here)
OK , its a swam buggy , we get the picture.

and that the fuel pump is quite dead.

and you got it in non running condition. ?

now you are fixing things as need be so it will move and not catch fire.

i can say for sure.
you just need to say 2 things

1: what it dont do ,or does bad.?
2: what does it do good, this motor , not the one on the floor.?\

tell is that , and we can make it run.

the first step if you dont have fuel is to see
1: fuel filter not clogged.
2: 12vdc across the fuel pump connectors, key on for 3 seconds.

pump ONLY has power under the following conditions.
3 seconds key on , stops. (repeated key on's builds pressure)
cranking ,on the whole time.
running , on the whole time.

the FPreg , returns fuel all time the pump is running.
if not ,the pump is dead. (or main fuel line is packed up or FPReg the same.)

i suspect this car will not start and run, and move , right.
or is it just power issues.?


there are 3 tubes on the front right frame rail.
vent to EVAP box.
fuel main line.
fuel return.
on mine the return line was painted red to help the assemby guys from mixing it up.

only way to find the correct hose it to follow the hose from the tank to the front.
if you need photos of the tank and all connections we have great FSM photos.

fsm is factory service manuals, $20 on ebay they are,
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i will attempt to answer all questions.

BEX:

by ecu light, im guessing you mean ses or check engine? because that it definatly on.

car starts, revs up to about 2000 then down to 0 (chug chug chug) then 1000
the 0(chug chug chug) then 1000, and then (chug chug... stall)
so the engine runs, just not good, not good at all, i can see when it revs up in idle its because of a device kicking the TB open, i adjusted the screw on it, needless to say i also adjusted the idle screw,(i'm sure you guys wont like that too much)

I personally have never cleaned ERG on this vehicle, nor do i know where its located.


running temp? not sure of it, gauge never shows temp, possibly bad sensor, or bad gauge.

Kick:

i recieved this car in running condition and drove it as a fun/work vehicle all last summer. it slowly declined to this point. it ran the same before and after the swap, regaurdless of the engine in it.


1. it does run, but not good enough for driving, if i spent 5 minutes on it feathering the pedal (back and forth) i could get it up to 60.

it don't idle for more than a minute or 2 (described above)

it wont spin the tires, no matter how bad you wanted it to.

another thing,

from idle, pedal to the floor = Stall

From idle, pedal back and forth = faster

what does it do good?

not much... yeah...

and the fancy thing that looks like this: http://www.stac-consulting.com/serra...turbo/fpr2.jpg
thats mounted on the side of the TB, has nothing hooked up to it, nor does it have anything coming out if it, ever.

BTW, fuel filter has been changed, and then changed back to the old one, because we could not make it stop leaking.

ill trace the line from the tank. or look on my geo, to see which one it is.

if i need a FP, i'm gona wanna bash my head in. because that does not seem worth it on a fun car.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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your car is in such poor shape and missing parts and that thing in you hand is
a fuel pressure regulator.

the 89,
The throttle body recieves fuel from the rear TB air horn.
such that, there is a mini fuel rail inside the TB and the other side is the relief point
the FPreg.
since the return port and vacuum port is missing. (on the FPREG)
and
the return port is NOT hosing the engine bay with huge volumes of free flowing gasoline.
this means the FPred is jammed 100% shut. (BAD)

in this case ,with a good fuel pump. the pressure will be 58 PSI.(shunt spec)

this will cause the motor to run (EFI) vastly rich at all times, (very very rich)

in fact this failure renders the while EFI system , to be useless.
Just a smoke machine. lots of fuel out the exh ports. fouled plugs.

my comments and effects assume that some of the other parts are working and doing there job, if not , the effects can be different but still bad. YMMV.

i think this is a case for silk purse from a sows ear.
but it is possible.
first is to put the car back together as the Suzuki engineer made it.
IMHO.


TB=Throttle body.
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