1990 Geo Tracker LSI Ignition

mrlanc · 11-05-2009, 11:38 AM

I have a 90 Tracker Lsi that I am trying to change to a key less ignition system being that it is used for off road use only. My question is regarding the wires L1 and L2 that go to the ignition switch. The wiring diagram says that these wires get power when the key would be in the start position.Am I looking a this correctly? If so, if the starter is going to be working off a push button could both L1 and L2 be attached to the button as well or do the need to be on an independent toggle switch? From my diagram it looks like the only wires that need power to start are IG1, the starter, and L1 and L2. I've tried to connect L1 and L2 to a power source but when I do they seem to short something out(kills power to everything). Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? What are L1 and L2 for? I have IG2 and accessory on a separate toggle to power.

kick-fix · 11-05-2009, 07:19 PM

codes, ok.
wire colors are better.
http://www.kick-fix.com/All-Pdfs/M89/89-elect3.pdf
you must be looking at my above

as you can see the start switch is kinda complex.
on the left side , it does other things besides run the starter motor.

lets begin with the ON row.
looking from top to bottom.
main battery comes from White/green B+
this is hot full time.
then key to on , this power is connected to:

ACC , IG1 and IG2.
so you must do that too, or you loose power to those things.
since you didnt say what must or must not work off road, i will assume ALL.
ACC runs a few accessories, just look at the ACC path and its obvious, radio ......
then IG1. runs all the critcals.
then IG2 runs the power hogs useless to cranking.
note carefully IG2 power drops out for cranking. kills defog, fan and power windows.
note same for ACC drops out for cranking. Cranking is Top JOB. see ?

then we get to the spring loaded start path, this just connects.
this shorts ST (starter solenoide) to B+ battery, grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrr
last is the L1 and L2.
you need the intrument page to understand that. its just window dressing.
it only makes the brake and cruise light glow for FUNS and Giggles.
ignore L1 and L2. (see my intrument page on my schematic page)

so , ive outlined the whole switch, (not aCC , i will let you figure that out,for fun)

unless parked off road and not feeling compelled to drain the battery far off road
id delete the ACC function.
it's only for yuppies anyway. with AAA cards.

Youd have to show a new schematic for anyone to say what you did wrong.

Id not jumper IG2 to IG2 ,as the fan sucks 15amps, real bad for starting.
just have seperate switches.
1 for IG1, IGN.
1 for IG2 , remainer and go ahead and short this to ACC .
1 for starter , momentary , normally open. spring loaded. sw.

there how is that. cheers.

cant tell how many hot wired cars ive made. way too many.
key is knowing the org. intent.
and that is MAX starter power . idiot proofed too. a nice design really.

mrlanc · 11-10-2009, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the breakdown, I guess I had everything wired up correctly.Your wiring diagram is much better than the one I had though.
Ended up runnung a new wire from the momentary switch to the starter. somewhere along the line the original wire must be bad.The only use for ACC I have is that it runs the CB now where the radio use to be.

Still have one problem though. The starter continually cranks, what would cause this??The momentary switch is operating correctly. the only wire from the original igintion harness that I'm still using is ig1(blk-ble) all others were rendered useless

Quote:

Originally Posted by kick-fix

codes, ok.
wire colors are better.
http://www.kick-fix.com/All-Pdfs/M89/89-elect3.pdf
you must be looking at my above

as you can see the start switch is kinda complex.
on the left side , it does other things besides run the starter motor.

lets begin with the ON row.
looking from top to bottom.
main battery comes from White/green B+
this is hot full time.
then key to on , this power is connected to:

ACC , IG1 and IG2.
so you must do that too, or you loose power to those things.
since you didnt say what must or must not work off road, i will assume ALL.
ACC runs a few accessories, just look at the ACC path and its obvious, radio ......
then IG1. runs all the critcals.
then IG2 runs the power hogs useless to cranking.
note carefully IG2 power drops out for cranking. kills defog, fan and power windows.
note same for ACC drops out for cranking. Cranking is Top JOB. see ?

then we get to the spring loaded start path, this just connects.
this shorts ST (starter solenoide) to B+ battery, grrrrrrgrrrrrrrrr
last is the L1 and L2.
you need the intrument page to understand that. its just window dressing.
it only makes the brake and cruise light glow for FUNS and Giggles.
ignore L1 and L2. (see my intrument page on my schematic page)

so , ive outlined the whole switch, (not aCC , i will let you figure that out,for fun)

unless parked off road and not feeling compelled to drain the battery far off road
id delete the ACC function.
it's only for yuppies anyway. with AAA cards.

Youd have to show a new schematic for anyone to say what you did wrong.

Id not jumper IG2 to IG2 ,as the fan sucks 15amps, real bad for starting.
just have seperate switches.
1 for IG1, IGN.
1 for IG2 , remainer and go ahead and short this to ACC .
1 for starter , momentary , normally open. spring loaded. sw.

there how is that. cheers.

cant tell how many hot wired cars ive made. way too many.
key is knowing the org. intent.
and that is MAX starter power . idiot proofed too. a nice design really.

kick-fix · 11-10-2009, 10:54 PM

right on, exactly

happy trails.

mrlanc · 11-11-2009, 11:56 AM

Any ideas on why the engine would keep cranking after the ignition is turned off??

kick-fix · 11-11-2009, 01:56 PM

absolutly

you did not use a N.O, mom. switch !.

Normally. open, Momentary switch for the ST stater line.
or you cross feed some other wire to this NODE.

nothing else must be connected to ST , (other than what oem print shows)
other legal things are ( ECU input , Cruise INPUT, ?)

the ecu monitors the ST line so it knows your are cranking and sets AFR and timing
to the appropriate values for a perfect start ( no stall, no flood)

Momentary.
so with key off , this line is at zero volts.
if not , its wired wrong.

mrlanc · 11-11-2009, 02:27 PM

I am using a N.O. mom switch. Start line is the only wire going to it. Ran a new (completely independant wire) to the start selenoid. Other side of switch run directely to battery w/in line fuse. Checked switch to ensure operating correctly and it only passes power through when the button is pushed.

kick-fix · 11-11-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

keep cranking after the ignition is turned off?

explain more clear.
1: key off
2: key on,
3: start motor
its cranking now.
release key
its either running or its not cranking , or its stopped cranking.
tell what engine is doing and what starter motor is doing that is wrong.

cheers.

i am gussing now you mean.
i started engine.
i killed the ignition and the engine stills runs. is that correct?

if yes, that means you have power to the ignition and ECU . and shouldnt.

mrlanc · 11-11-2009, 07:56 PM

1.Turn ignition on.
2.push button to engage starter
3.starter engages and engine turns over
4.vehicle is running
5.turn ignition off
6.engine stops running
engine continues to try to turn over though.

If i engage the starter and this point the motor starts up and runs again.
The only way I can get the engine to stop trying to turn over is to disconnect battery ground.
Hope this explains it better, I appreciate all the information you have provided and in depth respones.

kick-fix · 11-12-2009, 12:52 AM

huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlanc

1.Turn ignition on. (ok)
2.push button to engage starter (ok)
3.starter engages and engine turns over (perfect)
4.vehicle is running (ok good)
5.turn ignition off ( ok , ign off)
6.engine stops running ( ok , engine stops , no spark no fuel)
engine continues to try to turn over though. (what ever does this mean?)

what do you mean by "engine stops running" and
"the engine stops trying to turn over"

it the car dieseling? (eg like a carb, killing spark and forgetting to cut fuel
an motor can keep running. even backwards)

you need to get clear on what you mean by turning over or running.

there are 3 mode.
1-cranking ( use no other term for this , think of model T-Ford and crank arm)
2-then running, this is spark running and injection.
3-dieseling, no spark ,but forgot and left power to the ECU. oops , dieseling.

If i engage the starter and this point the motor starts up and runs again.
The only way I can get the engine to stop trying (<explain) to turn over is to disconnect battery ground.
Hope this explains it better, I appreciate all the information you have provided and in depth respones.

this a fun one. Cheers.