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Old 09-24-2009, 06:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default '93 limp home case update

Well guys, I've gone through about every test in the book - the only unknowns at this time being the TPS and MAF. If you will recall this is the 16v JX with auto trans.

Contrary to popular opinion this unit runs best (in the shop) with both the TPS and MAF unplugged at the same time. Starts, idles 12rpm cold and drops to 800rpm hot - revs up to 4grand with no problem and falls back to proper idle. Still it won't actually run outside - once in gear and throttle applied it bogs down immediately. Looks like I have me a "house" car!http://www.suzuki-forums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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Old 09-24-2009, 07:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Transmission and brakes are functioning properly, correct?
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Old 09-24-2009, 09:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Brakes are good - no vacuum loss there, but ...

I do wonder if there could be a problem perpetrated by the automatic transmission. Since it will bog down and not run under load (in gear). On the old GM autos there was a vacuum modulator that could give you fits.
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:36 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Another thing I'm wondering about is

the little white, two wire, plug coming off the harness right at the TPS plug? Is this some sort of test point - there's nothing it can plug into and I don't see it referenced in any of the books etc.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Appears to be related to the EGR system. I took a picture but can't load the file due to size and don't have facilities to resize. Possibly I can email it to you. The pic is from a 97 Tracker 1.6 16v.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Okay, I printed the pic, cropped the photo and scanned it. Hopefully it's clear enough. See attachment
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File Type: pdf 20090925123848188.pdf (213.5 KB, 5 views)
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default No, actually, it's this one...

I've not seen it listed anywhere.
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Okay, yours is OBD I. There should be a pigtail coming off the EGR valve.
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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NO POWER IS THE POST.

sure everyone can resize , xp, pcpaint, start+accessories, paint, Image tab , attributes.
1024x768 pixels , BINGO ,save.


first off please don't mix years, lets stay 93 ok? 97 are quite different. 5 generations.

the Egr has but one pair of wires in 92 (unless there is a calif. EGR thermo probe)

you need to spec out your car 100% if we want get accurate information.
year, doors, 4wd ? valves. 1.6L ,1993, and do you have A/C. (tranny 3sp or 4sp????)

last , IS CAR FED or CAL car.? (look at sticker under hood, look upward see it?)
the 2 cars, have diff, smog parts ! first tell us what you have.

see hose 36 and 19

36 is Calif EGR thermo probe (2 wire conn)
19 connects to the one and only EGR VSV (97 has 2) and is painted red in my photo.

http://www.kick-fix.com/sensors/93-mpi-smog1.JPG


id forget trying to figure out what every option connector is on your car. its waste of time.
better is to look at all sensors and actators and make sure they are connected.

here is the list:
o2
injectors 1 thru 4
ECT
IAT (92 some on missing , by design)
VSV EVAP (energized closes it)
VSV EGR. ( energized closed it)
ISC (idle controller )
EGR thermoprobe at EGR main.
TPS.
MAF.
Dizzy.
suppressor module.
coil.
Igniter.

more... but that is the critical's.

what needs to be plugged in.
all in the below schematic. (all and non less)
http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/92-95MPI...-size-huge.png


now lets work the runs only in the shop.
tell us how it runs.?

Hot , cold, parked in neutral racing motor. ( ok,IIRC)
hot /cold , loaded or not. (bad with MAF connected)
idle speed hot and cold, and with A/C on HOT.
could be :

every time you start a new post , bad cause we just lost the context, but ok too late.
you need to type up that list of things done and paste it.


have you:
checked fuel pressure.?
alway top of list.

is egr closed. (inside with eyes)
also unplug tube going (and plug end) to it make sure valve dont move. idling. (need mirror)
if valve moves the VSV is stuck open or has bad input.

your car runs in limphome mimic only. does not throw CEL codes with TPS and MAF plugged in,correct?

i showed you how to test fuel pressure and test the maf.

you only need to cut the output wire of maf (make sure car still has power now) and monitor output of maf with a meter.

if you can get power to the maf and drive , and get full power in Mimic mode then you can monitor the maf output and see if the output goes to 4.5vdc under heavy loads.
if it does its ok.

there are only 3 ways to test this maf.
buy one (barrow)
test as per above
or take it to a shop that can test a maf , standalone, some shops can.


the tps can be tested 2 ways,
voltage and ohms. (resistance)
live on car, or unplugged with a voltmeter.

im sure its not TPS. but you can test it.

the 3 majors are.
good maf
good in range fuel pressure under load ( you need to say how will car runs in mimic mode)
injector not clogged.



cat is not clogged. cuz , mimic mode (Maf and tps unplugged) car has full power. but rich.
if it does in fact have full power hot and cold in mimic mode, then the fuel pressure must be good.


when you plug in a maf,the ecu sees a voltage and if said volts is not zero or stuck at 5v at idle then the ECU is happy it is ok.

a really really crude measure of function.

so if the maf is changing under load but is way off , the ECU will not catch it.

the ECU believes it , unless the throttle angle is way different then the MAF readings.

if this happens it throws a DTC.code

running with out a TPS , MAKES NO SENSE TO ME ALL ALL.

if you suspect the TPS then ohm it out.
make sure the switch side is closed <300ohms (typ 50) and opens to infinity after 20% of cw rotation.
then check the pot side.
check end to end 3-5k ohms, if infinity , its bad.
check wiper to any end and it must move linearly from near zero ohms to 3-5k (same as what you read above.

if all this checks out then put it back in and calibrate it using the 3 feeler guages, and leave it in the car.

hope that helps you.
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Last edited by kick-fix : 09-25-2009 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaps3 View Post
Well guys, I've gone through about every test in the book - the only unknowns at this time being the TPS and MAF. If you will recall this is the 16v JX with auto trans.

Contrary to popular opinion this unit runs best (in the shop) with both the TPS and MAF unplugged at the same time.
Starts, idles 1200rpm cold and drops to 800rpm hot - revs up to 4grand with no problem and falls back to proper idle.


Still it won't actually run outside - ( with or with out the TPS/MAF unplugged) you need to be specific.

once in gear and throttle applied it bogs down immediately. NO POWER.

Looks like I have me a "house" car!http://www.suzuki-forums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


how much power do you have cold in mimic mode (maf/tps disconnected)
if none then fuel pressure bad, injectors clogged, or bad maf/tps)

fully explain your mimic test.

mimic, case others dont know is what ECU does when you kill a sensor.
it does its best to mimic the missing part. (or dead)
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IS YOUR CHECK ENGINE LAMP ON ? running.
96 Tracker, 5sp, 2Dr,4w,d OE stock.Fed48+No A/C ,No Cruise. +MPG gauge , live dash fuel pressure , oil pressure and voltage gauges. + fur lined gimbals beer holder with IV drip mod.
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