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Old 07-21-2009, 05:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default timming 15" off

Hi

After correcting timming belt the timming shows 15" off.
Could this be due to a badly mounted distributor or timming belt?

Kind Regards,
Joćo Seabra
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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not sure what you did,

Important points :
1: all 4 timing marks line up , crank and cam. exactly like my timing belt pages show.
2: key-ways exactly like shown on tbelt page, cam key down. Crank key exactly up.
3: no damage to crank key slot. ( yes, you must look or you will never get it to run right, if there is damage here.

4: then install the dizzy per my ignition timing page.
set the static timing.
then start motor.
the place timing freeze jumper.in the DLC connector (paper-clip jumper)
then set exact timing to spec. in degrees. 8 degrees before top dead center . 8v at idle. 800rpm.

if idle is wrong set idle with bleed screw in the throttle body front side. (hidden under a rubber cap)

Last edited by jtgh : 07-21-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtgh View Post
3: no damage to crank key slot. ( yes, you must look or you will never get it to run right, if there is damage here.
Hi

Thanks alot for your promptly response (as allways!)

I didnt check the crank key slot because i couldnt remove it but it seemed ok.Beside that i followed your steps with care.


When i start the car everything seems ok.
If i press throtle slowly the car responds correctly.
It i press the throttle fast the car bogs down and chokes.If i set the timing to 15" it responds correctly.

Any ideas?
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
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i bet someone put lots of loctite on that crank key , buttoned it up and prayed.

key damage. (must be done careful and can be made to work perfectly.)

but did it 10 degrs.off or more.


20|||||10||||0

<--------- you need to go too far that way? on cam cover guage.?

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Old 07-22-2009, 04:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtgh View Post

20|||||10||||0

<--------- you need to go too far that way? on cam cover guage.?
Yes..It goes to 25 or 30" ... but stays steady.
Cant be any other problem?
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Yes..It goes to 25 or 30" ... but stays steady.
Cant be any other problem?
Could this be connected to valves too tight or out of adjustment considering my previous post?

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...-problems.html
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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this pointer , says the crank pulley is way off. (belt cog)
to prove this easy , get at TDC linear measure guage.
it screws in to the sprark plug hole. #1

then ,
1: rotate crank CW until gauge stops moving. (clock wise =CC and CCW, you got it, readers.....)
2: mark crank with a liquid paper ink pen.
3: now keep going, and pass over TDC. 50 deg. or so.
now going backwards CCW creep up on TDC again, stopping at the exact spot where
piston stops moving again.

4: paint another mark. at 0 on scale down to the pulley each time.

5 ,the bisect these two points. cut them in half ,
real TDC Key way , is mid way between these two points .

this is the old British motor car and bike way of finding TDC. ( They feared built in scales for some crazy reason)

one can do the same with a plastic soda straw but is far less accurate.

put nothing down hole that can break off in side. (or is not designed for this test, except a flexistraw)

this is the only way to prove the crank key , condition with out looking at it. ( tell me im wrong)

id say your valve timing is way , off ( like 100 posts this year now for just this) sigh.

but do check lash , but id avoid looking at TDC, id make sure each valve is at this widest gap (guessing by turning crank). then measure gap.

i bet it takes 300f heat to get crank bolt off. extra hard loctite. (see their web page for guidance....)

id never do any belt , unless i checked the key.
if something stopped me, (eg over 150 ft/lbs rev. torque on crank bolt, then out would come the British TDC tool.




IMHO.


PS:
always expect this:

Repairing damaged crank and replacing seal. - Page 1 of 1

and
settle for less...... hope springs eternal.

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Old 07-22-2009, 07:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This doesnt seem to be it.
The TDC is where the mark in the crank pulley indicates.The valves seem to be at the widest gap at TDC.

I've replaced distributor rotor, distributor cap,spark wires and spark plugs.However the spark plugs were replaced by the ones indicated in the suzuki automotive world for the SE416 MY96,Sant which is BPR5ES and not BPK6 as some manuals seem to recomend.Could this be the problem?
Could the problem be in the distributor?

I also cleaned the EGR some time ago.Could some of the components (modulator,etc) be causing this problem?
What else could the problem be?

I will do a compression test and let you know.

Thanks,
Joćo
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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agreed, do compression test, if perfect we check off on motor .
and look elsewheres. the white mark really spooked me.... just like :


i may be way off.
were u just after belt change. the ign timing was off , that is it.

well some one set ign timing with belt off and now you have right and naturally the dizzy is off. so just set it .
or
are you saying all above is true and now you set timing and motor runs like crap with it set right and you need advance it to get (power or proper idle, or ?)

i say set timing with the feeze jumper set correctly and let chips fall where they lie.

eg: set idle, unstick EGR. make sure dash pot is retraced.

I get feeling i read you wrong (my issue) cheers.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtgh View Post
agreed, do compression test, if perfect we check off on motor .
and look elsewheres.
Cold engine, Wot, 6 or 7 cranks:

#1 - 169 psi (estimated its not exactly 170)
#2 - 161 psi (estimated its not exactly 160)
#3 - 165 psi
#4 - 165 psi

Could the spark plugs be the problem? They are new...The previous ones were not ngk bpr5es and everything seemed to be working ok...

My source was: Suzuki Vitara SE416 (), SE416, , (2 VALVE). Suzuki.
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