...DIY CEL? & CAS question...

ecoast · 06-28-2009, 05:37 PM

Hey all-
91 8v MT US
33920-56B30

On the CAS sensor, this diagram on Jerry's site shows
white = signal
blue = 5v dc
black = ground

I just bought a Samurai w/this swap, cranks, no start, no spark, I am seeing the CAS pulse on the meter, but seems to be a prob. in the harness as I am showing voltage on the white and signal on the blue..? Was a known good runner w/81k but has sat for 1 year + ...
Can I just cut the CAS plug loose and run those three separate from ECM to dizzy CAS plug for test? I realize that because this may be crossed, running separate wires to the CAS won't tell me whatever else could/would be wrong/crossed.
I am told the vendor will make it right, buy I just got vehicle and want to at least make it run before sending back for re-work (best solution).

Pretty sure the rubycon's are shot (may also be my prob.)...fix those tomorrow when I go to Radio Hack.

Also trying add a CEL to this 91 8v MT US and was wondering what would be a safe value for bulb? I assume it's 12v?
What value/type LED to make the CAS tester?
What value/type LED to make noid light?
I understand the resistors and cap values.

jtgh · 06-28-2009, 07:53 PM

yes, my drawing has one weak point (sorry) (power pin has led and power both)

there are 3 pins. on this dizzy.

12vdc power must be on blue pin of dizzy. (hall device and amp in side must have power)
then ground must be connected.

then you can connect a led like shown and it must flash.

or
just plug in harness and back proble the white wire.
analog meter works best. and it must toggle. the needle.
IIRC, 0v then 3v or more.

that cap is usless and the ecu will never run right with a dead main filter cap.
this is so common , it is a shame.

Rubi-crapout-cons. never seen a good one yet.
either bad ,or replaced already.
CEL:
the lamp is 12-14v. and lowest current you can find is best. 0.02 to 0.05 amps. max.
I have candle power spec. just dont have book handy.
LED can work too. like above. need inseries resistor 600 ohms about.

cas tester. any LED will work, there are many types but the 3 cent kind that have no internal resistor are everywhere.
same with Noid.

no super bright LED.
no resistor inside LED ( will say I work on 12v or 5v only, avoid them)
flat side of led and short leg is cathode , (minus)
Electronics 2000 | Pin-outs | LEDs

the dizzy must be wired just like this
http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/91-95-TB...matic-base.jpg

no other way is possible

this wiring creases CMP that allows ECU to make spark.
its like a drummer boy.
TDC,TDC,TDC, TDC. repeat
ecu
spark, spark , spark, spark. + advance.

my cheap noid.
http://www.kick-fix.com/NOID/91-noid-sf1.jpg

the lamp above is way better than led.
it will glow with really fast injector pulses.
the LED may flash so fast , your eYE WILL MISS IT.

tHE LAMP extends the duration of the fash ,just right for humans.

cheers.

ask quesitons.

jtgh · 06-28-2009, 08:10 PM

brain remembered.
CEL lamp #73 is best.

1.12 Watt, 14 Volt, 0.08 Amp Miniature T1 3/4 Indicator Bulb
OEM style.

low current for tiny transistor in ecu to drive.

ecoast · 06-28-2009, 08:45 PM

12vdc power must be on blue pin of dizzy. (hall device and amp in side must have power)
then ground must be connected.

I should have mentioned I m only showing 5v or so, I will begin by hanging the caps.

then you can connect a led like shown and it must flash.

or
just plug in harness and back proble the white wire.
analog meter works best. and it must toggle. the needle.
IIRC, 0v then 3v or more.

I was only showing 5v on white; 5v pulsed to ground on blue.
I will strip back and look at it w/ your diagram.
I have 91 fsm, but did not see that?

that cap is usless and the ecu will never run right with a dead main filter cap.
this is so common , it is a shame.

I'll change 'em out. So apparent!

Rubi-crapout-cons. never seen a good one yet.
either bad ,or replaced already.
CEL:
the lamp is 12-14v. and lowest current you can find is best. 0.02 to 0.05 amps. max.
I have candle power spec. just dont have book handy.
LED can work too. like above. need inseries resistor 600 ohms about.

cas tester. any LED will work, there are many types but the 3 cent kind that have no internal resistor are everywhere.
same with Noid.

no super bright LED.
no resistor inside LED ( will say I work on 12v or 5v only, avoid them)
flat side of led and short leg is cathode , (minus)
Electronics 2000 | Pin-outs | LEDs

the dizzy must be wired just like this
Jerrys main sidekick page

no other way is possible

this wiring creases CMP that allows ECU to make spark.
its like a drummer boy.
TDC,TDC,TDC, TDC. repeat
ecu
spark, spark , spark, spark. + advance.

my cheap noid.
http://www.kick-fix.com/NOID/91-noid-sf1.jpg

the lamp above is way better than led.
it will glow with really fast injector pulses.
the LED may flash so fast , your eYE WILL MISS IT.

tHE LAMP extends the duration of the fash ,just right for humans.

cheers.

ask quesitons.

Should have seen Wifey's face as I drug it into the garage:

...she helped push, though. Good woman.

I will ask , thanks.

jtgh · 06-29-2009, 02:13 AM

sorry. my bad.!

http://www.kick-fix.com/ECU/only-for-spark.jpg

sorry, the Dizzy is powered by 12vdc .
but the output is open collector
and the ECU pulls it up to 5vdc internally.

but on the bench (dizzy only) with my 12v led pullup the signal will swing 12v. (the transistor has no problem with 12v as compared with 5v.)
but to be really good practice. the manuals say use 3 x 1.5v dry cells in series, for 4.5v total.(pullup on cas output on dizzy)

sorry i did not say what i did. exactly.

the 5vdc swing is perfect (IN CAR) and any analog meter can see it cranking
or digital with the fancy LCD analog bar strip feature.
really all that is needed to test dizzy is back probe the white wire and crank it.

do over after getting ECU fix.
look for damage under corner cap, boric acid damage. us bicarb to neutralize it with
q-tip.

arm and hammer bicarb will arrest the process.
mix with water , dab it on. scrub it off with paper towel.

jtgh · 06-29-2009, 02:25 AM

http://www.kick-fix.com/IGN_timing/CAS-91.jpg

this dont lie.

live on car running.
scope grounded
tip back probed to with wire 8v. dizzy. 91.

ecoast · 06-29-2009, 04:42 PM

Got all the all the bits to make testers.

Only cap i could get was 100uf 160v and the footprint is too big and cap too tall for case; he will have proper cap for me for friday...
I'll repair and report.

ecoast · 06-29-2009, 06:10 PM

...one more pic:

No problem w/ water and baking soda on the board to clean up?
Alcohol afterward? ie; rubbing? (beer, wine, sangria- AFTER it's fixed)

jtgh · 06-29-2009, 06:59 PM

the PCB, is conformal coated and the coating hates alcohol. or any solvents.
just clean up, on the contaminated area.
I use Q-tip swabs. (any brand)

I mix up a bit of, bicarb in water in a tiny bottle cap lid. stirring...
then dob it on, and neutralize that acid , that acid is bad news.

the comformal will be gone in this area, so i too used ISOprop, Alchohol. for last step clean.
use ,rubbing type, only if cut with water and never oil)
some rubbing has oil, sheep oil or ? back label.

others are cut with water and that is ok.
your looks like it was caught early. no corrosion yet.

buff up the copper pad in corner too. thats the noise ground.

your cap should be ok, it will be at least 90 % as good a orig.
i think mine is 100uf at 50v. (some cars have 75v , seen it)
so yours may have a slightly higher ESR. (not a show stopper)

save the Sangria for you and wife.,hahahaha

your doing good.

just remember that:
1: Dizzy needs power 12v, for the internal amps.
2: the out put will never wiggle , unless you or someone pulls up the output with a resistor or the like.

im my drawing , i use an LED and resistor. the LED drops 2volts and the rest goes resistor. most transistors can take 30v min. no problem.

i have a spare dizzy, i will try it again. just to make sure all is well.
i just spin the shaft and it blinks.

ecoast · 06-29-2009, 09:19 PM

Jerry, please clarify one important bit for me, if you would:

Are you testing by providing 12v to directly to CAS w/ plug disconnnected?

or:
Should I see A23 feeding 12v @ dizzy w/ plug connected?
or:
Should I see A23 feeding 5v @ dizzy as on the diagram?

w/signal pulse returning on A13?

All assuming ECU OK.

And lastly, you are certain of the photo showing the 3 CAS wires is correct in it's labeling, meaning
black = grnd
blue = voltage
white = signal

I ask confirmation only because I am seeing the opposite; (gound ok) as this may be where the cross is in the harness (which I don't understand, as this branch seems to run only to CAS and then forward to the 2 VSV's, and should not have been cut/modified at all as it is all STOCK sidekick; no Samurai interface-weird).