Hoping someone can help me.
I purchased a 97 model Vitara soft top yesterday (2 litre, 5spd manual), and the brake lights on it werent working. I figured it was probably just a blown fuse so didn't think much of it at the time and purchased it anyway.
Today I have been trying to trouble shoot it. As it turns out, there was no fuse plugged in to the brake/horn fuse slot at all. As soon as I plug a fuse in, the brake lights come on and stay on (at least the horn then works ).
I then figured it must be a faulty brake light switch (the one on the brake pedal), so I have just unplugged that now. Yet the brake lights *still* remain on which is really doing my head in. Just in case that switch is an open circuit, Ive shorted the 2 pins out on the plug to check but there was no difference, the lights remain on.
There are no warning lights on the dash etc at all, its just the brake lights on the rear of the car remain on. Does the handbrake engage the brakelights also? I was 99.9% sure they don't, so haven't bothered checking that yet.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what to try next?
From searching the forums it sounds like I need to check a RWAL connector next possibly? Does that cause the brake lights to stay on only, or if it was that would there be dash warning lights etc also?
Does anyone know if 97 models even have this RWAL set up? I can't seem to locate the said RWAL black box anywhere. In the fuse block under the bonnet there is a spot listed for an ABS fuse (50A), which just happens to have no fuse plugged in there either. Tried plugging a spare fuse into that spot, but it still doesn't make the brake lights go out so it appears to be unrelated to the issue I am having.
I have double checked and there is definitely no lights on the dash on etc. The handbrake lamp comes on when the handbrake is on (duh!), but it goes off as per normal when you release the handbrake so that doesnt seem to be an issue.
Think I might have to go see an auto-eleccy/suzuki dealer.
you didnt say your country. ?
as you may not know, lighting rules , vary greatly by country.
so I will answer for usa.
first off the rear brake lamps , on all most all cars run off either a brake switch or a fluid pressure switch.
the dash also has a brake fault lamp which is something quiet different than actual brake lamps in the rear.
you do not have RWAL (2wheel), and ABS (4wheel) is an option. (usa)
the handbrake lamp comes on when the handbrake is on (duh!)
that hand brake lamp is also the brake fault lamp too, like if fluid is low.
did you get a glove box manual with the car.? it explains all that.
i will explain the dash lamp first, it is complex.
first the cluster brake lamp (error) is tested every time you start car.
and if the flluid level is low (see switch in the master cyclinder).
so does the hand brake.
the DRL , day light running lamps also can set the cluster brake lamp glowing. (DRL FAult)
there is a 25 step procedure in the fsm for diagnosing just this one cluser lamp.
last this lamp glows for ABS malfuntion. solid glow = dead abs, blinking = abs malfunction.
i would guess? you car has ABS.
if it does and the fuse is missing then the seller was hiding something.
we should stick to one problem at a time, all this is complex, abs. brakes etc.
lets discuss the rear brakelamps.
there are 6 things that can cause the brake lamps to stick on, or blow its fuse.
1: the brake switch shorted (as you stated)
2:EBCM , abs controller faulted.
3: the shift lock circuit fault.
4: cruise control module fault.
5: 4speed tranny TCM(brain ) fault.
6: trailer lights plug , mangled hacked or wired up badly by some trailer hacker.
i bet your next question is , how to tell if car has abs.
(well you cant test it by braking with your foot on slipper surface , cuz fuse is missing.)
1: look at master cylinder, just near there is this ABS modulator.
it resides , just too the left(driver perspective) and tad higher than master cylinder.
2: tone wheels at each brake rotor
3: mag pickups for said tone wheels, (looks for stalled wheels while braking)
if you car has ABS, and is faulting , you need serious help.
we can not diagnose this complex system on this forum.
if you wish to learn its complexities, my i recommend a FSM, from Suzuki.
factory service manual.
the rear brake lamps are monitored by the cruise , because the brake switch cancels cruise control.
the same with the transmission, it aborts OD if you brake,etc.
the DRL , can fault and it glows the brake lamp to warn you ( they ran out of lamp space)
the shift lock , prevents shifting unless the brakes are applied ,and it could short out
and stick brake lamps on, but is unlikely to do so.
wow that is a hard question.
hardest ever.
always tell country and car drive line so we know what you have, there are 99 diff, markets. i cant guess them.
cheers.
My apologies for not mentioning the country, I'm in Australia. Its a 5 speed manual, 2 litre 4 cylinder. Its a 4WD model with the auto locking hubs.
Quote:
there are 6 things that can cause the brake lamps to stick on, or blow its fuse.
1: the brake switch shorted (as you stated)
2:EBCM , abs controller faulted.
3: the shift lock circuit fault.
4: cruise control module fault.
5: 4speed tranny TCM(brain ) fault.
6: trailer lights plug , mangled hacked or wired up badly by some trailer hacker.
Since the car is a manual without cruise control I assume numbers 3, 4 & 5 aren't applicable to me?
Regarding the brake light switch wiring, does that need to shorted for the brake lights to come on or should simply unplugging it cause the lights to go off (ie. does the circuit need to be completed or broken for the lights to come on)?
It just so happens I did remove some very poor trailer wiring this morning (it had been connected with just some of those crappy splicer blocks to the left hand rear tail light wiring), but no wiring had been cut, and now its been removed it all appears to be in good nick so I don't think that would be causing the problem.
I do have an owners manual and a Haynes manual for the car also, but neither of them really helped much apart from how to check/adjust the brake light switch which I had already done.
Since the handbrake warning light isn't on I assume there isn't an issue with the fluid level etc either? I know the warning light works, because it comes on when you put the handbrake on.
I will go check now if it is has ABS anyway and will report back shortly.
Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated!
Alright I've been out and had a looksie under the bonnet. Since I wasn't 100% sure what an ABS modulator looked like I took a photo while I was there so hopefully some one can confirm for me.
Am I right in saying it doesn't have ABS? If thats the case, it leaves even less which could be wrong then? Hrmmmf.
No idea if it would help, but here is an overall shot of the engine bay also:
Bonus pic of the new toy on its maiden voyage offroad yesterday. Now if I could only fix this damn brake light I could go out driving again!
Nice
I would remove all the light bulbs and clean all the contacts,apply some dielectric grease to all connections, and you will be good, you have a light bulb that's is grounding somewhere from moisture or corrosion
also make sure the lights bulbs are the same wattage for the same function
Last edited by TrackerDRE : 03-01-2009 at 11:01 AM.
My apologies for not mentioning the country, I'm in Australia. Its a 5 speed manual, 2 litre 4 cylinder. Its a 4WD model with the auto locking hubs.
thanks for counry and car options, really helps.
Since the car is a manual without cruise control I assume numbers 3, 4 & 5 aren't applicable to me?
the FSM shows the car with all options, when reading the schematic
it shows all, so one must imagine those options unplugged.
that is the suz way of doing the drawings.
so since ABS is missing, then you are down to #1 and 6.
red ok with you. ?
Regarding the brake light switch wiring, does that need to shorted for the brake lights to come on or should simply unplugging it cause the lights to go off (ie. does the circuit need to be completed or broken for the lights to come on)?
this is the path.
battery>>stop/horn/fuse>>stop switch (n.o)>lamp rear L&R> ground.
so, if the stop switch is pulled then lights must go out.
if they dont , your car is cross wired to some power feed.
or the switch is bad, pullit , if it dont go out , you have a short.
It just so happens I did remove some very poor trailer wiring this morning (it had been connected with just some of those crappy splicer blocks to the left hand rear tail light wiring), but no wiring had been cut, and now its been removed it all appears to be in good nick so I don't think that would be causing the problem.
I do have an owners manual and a Haynes manual for the car also, but neither of them really helped much apart from how to check/adjust the brake light switch which I had already done.
Haynes is useless (cept basic concept and they cross link years badly_)
Since the handbrake warning light isn't on I assume there isn't an issue with the fluid level etc either? I know the warning light works, because it comes on when you put the handbrake on.
All is well and since no ABS , it is now simple.
I will go check now if it is has ABS anyway and will report back shortly.
Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated!
in order to work this problem you need to find the real brake light switch.
since you have 5speed, the brake has no bearing cranking.
your start switch has a green wire in, and a green/white coming out.
fsm says : "Under LH I/P above brake Pedal " (in AZ replace LH to RH)
so now we pull this switch,
if the tail brake lamps do not die, then the brake circuit is shorted to power.
what and where is going to be hard to find.
Trailer lights is always #1 .
trace the Green/white wire from tail to front.
or as prev.poster said take it to a shop
but i'd bet you already know that , huh. ?
that is why you are here o avoid the stealerships. LOL.
Thanks for all the replies guys, it is much appreciated.
This morning I took out both rear tail lights, and started disconnecting things one by one in the hope that the other lights would go off (and hence finding the short circuit).
First I unplugged the additional middle tail light (the one above the spare tyre), but the other 2 brake lights remained on. Then I unplugged everything behind the right tail light, yet the left light one still remained on.
I then unplugged the main wiring harness behind the left tail light along with every other plug except the left tail light itself (hence isolating absolutely everything on the rear of the vehicle except that 1 tail light still plugged in).
The frieking thing STILL remained on. Just to make sure it wasn't that particular tail light I tried a test light and that wire is definitely getting power from somewhere. Hence it appears the fault doesn't lie with any of the rear lights/wiring, and is instead somewhere along the main harness running down the left hand side of the car.
I should mention all of the above was done with the brake pedal switch unplugged as well (just incase that was also toast). Every other light works perfectly as well (tail, reverse, indicators etc) so its not an issue with the earth etc.
Think its time I go see an auto electrician.
Ah well at least we tried.
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97 Vitara - Brake Lights staying on!?
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