Fuel injection/bogging on 2000 rpm and High idle.

[bestfreak]

Hello all
First of al..thanks for the great info provided here.. I really love the site..

Now to my sidekick problem... Although I think I have read all post about injection.EGR etc. problems, I could not find any postings with same (combination) of problems...

I have my sidekick (we call them Vitara) since 2 years... I really love the little car, and did alot of small imporvements.
From the start I found that the engine bogs at 2000 RPM 3de and forth gear doing 50 Km/H (city traffic).
sometimes its bad, sometimes wors, sometime almost no bogging... strange!!!

The second problem started in the 2008 fall, cold start running 2000Rpm, idle down to 1200Rpm Varying between 1000Rpm warm and 1500Rpm.
I replaced al vacuum lines, tested the cooling fluid sensor (the green one) these things seem to be fine.
I did run some high octane fuel several times but every octane switch seem to improve the situation a bit but after 100 Km the problem remains the same in basics.
Then this week I unplugged the IAC, the Rpm came down to 800 rpm idle, 1200 rpm on cold start (it was frezing -6 C) falling to 1000 Rpm after a few seconds (that is quit normal)
Just read on this forum how to clean my EGR so that wil be next to do (will never hurt I gues) And I think I need to clean/adjust the IAC Plunger also.

Now I know that this Sidekick is a summer lover since in warm wether the fuel consumtion is 11km on 1 liter fuel...in winter it is <8 km to 1 liter fuel. (our fuel prizes ar more then double the prizes in the USA)

My question(s)....
1. Could EGR valve / IAC problems be the cause of this kind of problems?
2. Are the problems related to the same source/faulty component?

I would love to hear from you..

Kind regards..

Auke

[jtgh]

hello Auke , what engine? is it gas or diesel (both in EU) i presume latter with EGR.
4cyl , 6cy, displacment.?

the EGR must close, if it dont , bad news. I think yours is closed , sitting.
it must open when commanded or the AFR (airfuelratio) will be bad. and cause drivablity issues and will throw PO400, are you getting that?

oppps, HOLLAND ? this car is pre 2001 and in your location , no OBD2 ECU's right?
tell me if it is settting the CEL lamp, running.

you could also pinch off the air supply to IAC and it will idle perfect too. Right?
the IAC is stuck open,

sure sounds like it. (all this valve does is regulate idle, but if it sticks wide open then the
idle will always be high) [ i lied it does more, like adding air at deaceleration and a bunch of other things that hellp mileage)
but its prime purpose is idle control .

the egr does more than reduce NOX, it can reduce pumping losses and help with deacelleration and with keeping valves cooler (last longer) The ecu does all this.

read body tag

line 3,4,6, and 7 tell the tall tail.

cheers.

[jtgh]

2k flat spot

1: does engine reach full temperature 82C ?
2: can be air leaks in induction, which are masked high throttle settings.
3: TPS bad, this device gives the enrich mode with a fast foot. ( result is bog)
4: ECT , must read 82c if 82c (line1) or you will suffer mileage issues.
5: MAP bad.
i will assume you are tuned up, I wont mention what that is ,until you disclose engine.
plugs for certain, air cleaner too.

MPG:
cold weather.
stiff fluids.
slow driving.
long traffic delays.
long idle periods?
hi friction with snow (try pushing car in snow. impossible , now do on flat pavement)
Ethanol added to fuel makes for worse MPG. or Liters / KM. (Holland do Ethanol trick?)

most above can be helped by a block heater. ( and drive slow unit tranny warms up)

[bestfreak]

Hi JTGH

Thanks for the response, my sidekick is a 1992 1600 8 valve 4 cylinder standaard engine.
Bassicly what you are saying is that probebly the plunger in de EGR is stuck in the open position.
Funny thing is...... sometimes..... it almost run runs like it should...so some movement should be there and cleaning wil do the trick... (BTW, are these new on sale?)
No I don't have the no OBD2 ECU as far as I know.. Although i Have A ECU...

If disconnect, the IAC the rpm drops to 800 rpm ..being perfect.. I even drove a round this way... it stalls easyer but that could be expected...
Yes the engine reaches 82 degrees, in the 5 to 10 km drives... short runs I can feel the intake manifold being warm to near hot (stil toucheble) and the radiator hoose still cold... in 5 to 10 Km drives the hose is warm to near hot also...

I did have some cooland lekkage a mounth ago or so but no overheating problems.. It is obious that to little coolant can also trcik the warn water sensor to not work..

Ik don not know if Ethanol is added to the fuel here.... It is SHELL and BP High Octane...where I ussaly run normal Octane fuel... They claim It "Cleans" the engine, burning better, less ware, less consumtion... That is what they claim......

Last summer I drove 1400 KM in one drive... (minus gas en sanatairy stops ) but the problem (bogging) still was there (did not have the High rpm problem yet)

I checked for air leaks spraying carb clean in every thinkeble place on the manifold, trottle body hose vacuum line etc... no increase in rpm........

Okay TPS is cleaneble and even partley repaireble...

What do you mean with MAP bad? How could that be?Mapping the engine is done by the ECU , mine is standard... no thinkering there... Yes the ECU was replaced by a repaired one...the original is RIP

Yes I hear you on the MPG.... thing... It just was something to make the picture complete.....maybe it was an angle to solv the problems....


Youre idea's are most welcome

Thanks

Greeting from a freezing cold Holland..... (-5 today and 12.000.000 people are on ice...skating.... the rest is sick, or doing something really usefull )

[jtgh]

its an 8v , ok.

what is hot running RPM? (cold start devices are working ,just a tad high)

the MAP is the sensor for manifold air pressure just behind throttle body and mounted to the fire wall. part 19 below.
I dont think it is bad, but make sure the vacuum tube to it breaths freely.
that top RAD hose must get so hot , it is very hard to touch. after warming up fully.
it it dont the ECT will detect (it is an accurate tempererature sensor) this fact and cause mixtures to bad tad rich, (just the opposite of your bog , strangely)
It is always the first test to do on any EFI system , is to make sure engine reaches full normal tempertature.
That will make a nice, song "roasting mud on me mudder muff, jack frost nipping on my ears..."
sorry lets work bog, first.

The other thing to do on an 8v is to pinch all the hoses running and expect no RPM drop.
all including vacuum booster on brakes,
do not pinch the line for the PCV as it flows normally.
when you pinch the top line on the IAC , it will drop as that is your idle feed.
Pinch EVAP,EGR,DASHPOT,
http://carfix.stufftoread.com/sensors/8v-sensors.JPG

the map line should be removed and inspected very carefully.
mine was melting and turning to DINO juice (reverting back to Crude oil) strange. huh?
pinching this line , will cause map (vac drop)to think , car is under heavy load and make ECU go rich. ( so pinch it , you can see MAP is at least alive) just for few seconds.
see 18 ?, it can get clogged up.

key points on idle ( a bunch)
1: IAC thermal (base of T must close at 140 - 150F
2: IAC electric must modulate idle where ever you set it with the bleed screw.
bleed screw is here.set it only hot. (if in fact is gets hot)
http://carfix.stufftoread.com/fresh-...inj-view1w.jpg
3: Vacuum leaks will cause high rpm , in all modes, hot and cold.
4: engine must be tuned, and no retarded ign timing or Tbelt slips allowed.
5: good compression and steady manifold vacuum at 19 inche HG. (.64 bar)[64-KpA)

The IAC electric must not be sticking open or closed or leaking (like mine).
here is my idle page.

I have a racing page and a seperate Idle set page.
racings-or-highIdle

[jtgh]

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/specs/...STAT-bung1.pdf

this is the TSB.
if you have a deep 4mm stat housing and then have the thermostat installed with the
the wrong gasket. the fluid leaks around the stat , instead of going through it.
this makes car run like ICE berg.

deep socket needs STAT rim gasket. STAT = thermostat.
shallow just needs top paper gasket.

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/sensor...tat/stat1w.jpg
disregard 1.8L ref. the 1.8L people put in1.6 STATS and really mess up.

see that rubber rim gasket, IT MUST be present on all 4mm STAT socket manifolds
thus the TSB report.

cheers.

[jtgh]

that flat spot can be just a bad TPS.

the TPS , activates ENRICH mode , when you step on the gas pedal. throttle.

if it is intermittant or dead, you get no Accellerate mode.