Cel with p0400

[brucebolivar]

I own a black Canadian 1997 Geo Tracker. I am the third owner and it has 200500 kms on it. It is a 4 door 5 speed 4wd.
3 months ago I did a tune up consisting of new wires, Plugs, rotor and cap.
6 months ago, at 185000kms the timing belt was changed.

The Tracker has been lacking power lately in the lower rpms.,and stalls at idle some times (seeming to idle really low all in the last month)
It had bogging type symptoms.
Today the cel came on and stayed on after start up. The tracker seemed to idled a bit better after the light was on.
The bogging was really bad after this.
This is good because I had no clue what was wrong.
So I went out and bought an obd2 code reader and It gave me these...
Code p0102
Code p0171
code p0400
and a pending code of p0400
It read them in that order.
I am thinking that the first 3 codes are older ones and the last p0400 is what made the light come on this time since the reader says its pending.

So right now I'm doing the EGR clean up routine.
So far I found a lot of crud in the EGR tube and the EGR valve itself seemed to not seat very well. So I cleaned the seat as best as I could.
I cleaned the small orifice on top of the butterfly too. It seems to flow better now.

My plan tomorrow is to put it back together, erase the codes and give it a try.

Is there anything else I should clean before I put it back together.

[oldphotonut]

I'd say put everything back together, BUT wait to fire it up.

P0171 means that your engine is running lean. . .

P0102 suggests a MAF sensor problem. . . .

A google search turned up this site (first hit):

OBD-II Trouble Code: P0171 System Too Lean (Bank 1) and
OBD-II Trouble Code: P0102 Mass Air Flow (MAF) Circuit Low Input

Both errors seem to have something in common. Are you using an aftermarket filter?

Before you go any further can we have some more information regarding your engine? Is is a 16 valve engine and are you running an aftermarket air cleaner assembly on it?

Please check out JTGH's site, specifically this page:

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/sensors/92-95induct.jpg

I believe that you may have an air leak. . . start simple first. . . make sure there are no vaccum leaks. Next, your MAF can be dirty and may need to be cleaned. . . .

In any event, I'd check everything out and wait for Jerry to check out your post as he's worked on these things WAYYYYYYYYYYYY more than I have and he might have some better ideas.

All 3 codes combined could make your car run like crap. While you're under the hood fixing one you might as well get the other two. . .

Good luck.

[brucebolivar]

Its a 16 valve. I have stock filter and intake. I'm interested in cleaning the maf censor though...
I will check for leaks around the intake, and loose or cracked vacuum lines.
The engine also does not race (didn't notice anyway) at cold start up. No back firing.

I did a boo boo to. I took the EGR MOD valve apart with out marking it. Does it matter witch way it goes back together? If so, how do I know its put back together right?

I have found a crack in the tail pipe just in front of the muffler. I was wondering about the back pressure part of the egr. I dont think this would cause all of my trouble, but I am going to get it welded too.

[oldphotonut]

It depends on what you mean by took it apart.

If I remember correctly P is on the left and Q is on the right.

Everything that you could want to know is on JTGH's web page.

You can pick up MAF cleaner at an auto parts store- just remember to NOT touch the screen on the MAF as it is sensitive and the last time I checked they were VERY stinkin' expensive.

95full_egr-tests.pdf | FreeDrive.com | Online Storage and Social Utility

Above for EGR, below for MAF

How to test sensor and actuators

You can thank Jerry for these links. All of the information we've gotten so far has come from his page. I'd buy him a case of beer if I got to drink it with him.

Good luck.

[brucebolivar]

What do I clean on the MAF? I am going to get MAF cleaner on Monday.

Here is what I did, and cant remember which way it goes.


Does some one know which way the p and Q are in relation to the small port looking from this angle?



And I cleared the codes. Started it up and it ran rough, 10 t0 15 seconds later I got the P0102 code again. Should I take it for a drive and see if the other codes come back, or just stick with the p0102 code for now and troubleshoot that?

SO what next? Im going to try Jerry's Maf testing and see where I get.

[oldphotonut]

If you checked out the link on Jerry's page:

95full_egr-tests.pdf | FreeDrive.com | Online Storage and Social Utility

You would find that either side of that valve does something different. By testing that valve, you should be able to figure out which side goes where.

As far as the MAF goes, the screen is what gets cleaned- AND you can never touch is with anything other than the chemical spray. THAT is the most important thing to remember as MAFs run $279 - $781 on rock auto.

RockAuto Parts Catalog

1997 Suzuki Sidekick (Canadian JA) with a 1.6 liter engine.

It's worth a couple of bucks to test and attempt repair of the MAF (IMHO).

Check out that PDF link above again and download it . Check out what P and Q are supposed to do and you'll know how to hook it back up (and how to get it together).

And good luck to you, sir, and let us know how everything goes.

[brucebolivar]

for some dumb reason I cant get the 95full_egr-tests.pdf | FreeDrive.com | Online Storage and Social Utility Thingy to come up. I get a pdf error .

Thanks for the EGR screen cleaning tip!

[jtgh]

great help here , huh?
See titty on the inside pipe top of it, on mod valve. it goes to Q.

in fact your cap is laying on the gauze correctly. in photo.
bruce i love your maf shot,can i have it?

id take all errors with a grain of salt. and remember obd2 clears codes as the correct.
eg: please do not replace all those parts. i bet only 1 are bad, if any.

here are my hopes with this:
egr paths dirty.
pay attention to the hidding path in the head. ( the secret aluminum rear head tunnel)
some folks use an old speedo cable (or cable off garage door latch) connected to
a drill 24" and feed it from EGR off, intake port over left thru head to exhaust man.
the do the stall test.
ill mail you that pesky PDF.

The MAF is only for testing EGR. so if egr monitor fails, it can think , or my sensor is bad too, cuz really the stupid thing cant really tell.

Same with MAF. The egr is tested at a specific RPM range and load.
and load is MAF reading. so it says, gee, EGR test fails maybe MAF is lying to me.

I bet VSV EGR is good, MOd is good. and Map and MAF.

more next post.

[jtgh]

have 96 fsm here.
condtions for setting 400
ECT = 158 to 230 F temp coolant.
intake 14F to 158F temp.air
Baro >= 75kpa (22 inches of HG)
rpm 1500-3000 AT, 2300 to 4000 MT , tranny?
speed greater than 20mph
complex rule ,but says throttle held steady. (cruising)
wait 240 seconds, frm engine start. begine 1st test
intake press diff test for 2seconds. 1 time each driving cycle. (key off , key on)
the EGR deaccel. test.
cept 1500 to 4000 rpm
rapid deacceleration. 150 rpm drop n 25 msec.
faster then 28mph
start test 2 at 290 seconds from eng. start
intake press diff test. (expects huge effect with EGR here)


bad news is it takes 40 driving cycles (from cold !) to clear this fault.
so clear it by hand each time you THINK you fixed . it..

wow 40 cycles , that is insane.

171 is super lean. ( ecu is adding way to much fuel to get proper AFR)
20 to 43% is allot.

many causes. including EGR. or O2 sensor being bad.
the O2 might be blanked with carbon due to other problems.
book says diagnoise all other DTC first , including 400

102: maf. MAF reading less than .64ma for longer then 5 seconds.
Id bet RPM is checked and can not figure why maf is so low. gut feeling.
Gross weak MAF. than 40 restarts to resest.
easy test.
scan tool connected. (logging)
charge a hill, & MAF flow from 4-7 grams/sec to neaar 100 g/s ( i have plots to show this)

next your pdf
cheers

[jtgh]

95full_egr-tests.pdf | FreeDrive.com | Online Storage and Social Utility

this silly web set is non intutive ideas.
click the large blue arrow , then save as, ........

to bad the arrow dont have DL in it just GET.

i just tried it it worked.

any trouble , hollar.

PS: note the 96 can not be tested in the drive way. it must be spinning the wheels.

let me know of you can do the stall test.?
push in the diaphragm of the egr main valve and get engine to stall ( or darn nearly)



cheers