Worn Crank Key

[DarnThorny]

Well, I have finally gotten a seal back in and upon reassembly, I noticed that the crank gear key was badly worn. When looking at it from the "front", it had sort of the shape of a dovetail joint. The way it had been, I am sure that the crank was 'advanced' in relation to the cam. Probably not by much, but still out of whack. How would that manifest itself in the operation of the vehicle? Before I took it apart, it started and idled ok, but was very slow to rev, and took A LONG time to get to speed. Now, the car has also had the EGR codes on, and I am sure the kickdown cable has too much slack, or is detached at the trans (It would down shift at speed with the slightest modulation of the gas). I'm waiting on a crank pulley bolt from the dealer, so I was curious if the worn key might be at least PART of the problem.

[Rhinoman]

Originally Posted by DarnThorny

I was curious if the worn key might be at least PART of the problem.

Quite probably, if you do a search you will find a few threads where the owner had performance problems and it was because the keyway was trashed.

[rudar]

Did it look sorta like this?

If so, I have that problem too


ETA: After taking the advice and searching, it looks like the fix is basically to clean out the keyway and key real good, then goop it in there with some loctite 660, wipe the excess off carefully, and let it set for 24hrs? That's not that bad. As long as my keyway doesn't look too far gone for that, but my completely uninformed opinion is that it doesn't look *that* bad...

[jtgh]

piles of treads on this, like 20 or so.

i have pn for Loctite compound designed just for this.
see my tbelt page for that and a link to the miata site for the cure.

they lose keys more than any car (old 91 era)

spec. pn from loctite, call keyway repair kit.

alt:
is to weld can cut ,near impossible on car.
cut a new key 180 other side. (mark cog gear 180 too)
or just weld in new key old hole and then grinde it square up.

i think that gets all. (cept new crank)

[DarnThorny]

Rudar, luckily the slot on the crank is ok.. my key actually became worn. I almost put it back together like that, but decided to call the dealer to compare since it didn't "look" worn, it just didn't seem like it should be the shape it was. So, new key was $2.65.
I figured I should do a search, as there are indeed plenty of threads involving this topic.

[jtgh]

here is how some cure this problem, on a car (early 90s) that has this problem in spades.
the short snout fix.

Loctite Crank Fix - Part 1

see , loctite has a products designed specifially for this problem.
loctite #660


didnt you wish we had a real garage , like Miata. (instead of searching 3 years of posts and getting 10000 false hits)

sigh.

[rudar]

DarnThorny: Just did a bit of searching and found your front-end seal problems... As far as I know, mine isn't leaking, but there is a new one in the box with the timing cover seal, and it has been suggested that I replace it while I'm in there anyway (especially considering the amount of heat I torched into the timing gear to get it off...) But reading your problems, hmmm, do I *need* to? Did you find out why you were having trouble, or have any hints? (granted, I have an 8-valve, so that might make things slightly different, but...)

[DarnThorny]

Rudar- Yeah, I don't know that I'd mess with the seal if it's not leaking... getting back in there isn't a big deal... mine was a hassle beacause it's an automatic, so the extra hoses and mees on the radiator were a real drag, since all the clamps were rusted. My seal problem is that the outer edge of the oil pump that it goes into, was cutting into the seal... there was a burred edge all the way around. The 5th and last seal I've tried, wwent almost all the way in, then a tiny bit pealed away as it seated.. the inner part around the crankshaft is ok, so I am praying it will be ok.
And as Jerry said, yes I do wish the Tracker had a web pressence like the Miata miata.net and clubroadster.com... it's ALL there.

[rudar]

Yeah, part of me wants to not mess with it if it ain't broken, but part of me figures that by the time I've loctited the heck out of the key and timing gear, getting back in there might be a lot more troublesome... Decisions, decisions...

Also, incidentally, I haven't actually seen Loctite-branded loctite anywhere; everywhere seems to sell "Permatex"... Is this just a Canadian branding thing, or is Permatex cr*p and I really should find the good stuff? Or, for gap filling the worn keyway, should I avoid both and go with a two-part epoxy like JB Weld?

ETA: if I do decide to replace the front end seal, and if I find a burred edge, would de-burring it with some 320-grit emery cloth be a good, or really bad, idea?

[jtgh]

those two cos. merged (see quote at end) .

whats to debure?

if the oil pump housing is damaged , id replace it. (no picnic, due to oil pan)
the housing side should be in perfect shape unless PO used a screwdriver or ice pick and
then spun it around.

recommend buying a real seal puller, the hook kind and the rocker kind.
then protect the crank with old coke bottle plastic (cut it out) and duct tape it around crank snout , that way the crank will not be destroyed. as is so easy to do.

many tell you to replace the seal each Tbelt but , if the original is not leaking and you
don't have the tools or take the time for protection. the results can be , you fixed it to death.
The old Physician credo, First , "DO NO HARM", applies to cars too.
don't worry the Physicians forgot it long ago. (lol)

the risks can stack.
stripping crank snout do to extra tuff loctite usage by PO. (no warning)
sheered pulley bolts 8mm head.. sigh.
damaged crank seal lands,
damage fuel pump seal walls.


4 ways to mess up a working ! oil seal.
on the suzuki, we need a crying towl sometimes.

IMHO , YMMV.


Permatex Company and Woodhill Chemical sales Company. Loctite merged with International Sealants in 1970
changing brand recognition is flawed, remember classic coke?
but the are doing it .. as you observed.