So my clutch cable broke @ the fire wall AGAIN! this will be the 3rd cable put into this Track since I bought it last September. It just went with little to no warning, I put my foot on it to put it in gear & my foot went straight to the floor.This is exactly what happened the last two times.
I check the Adjustment, & than adjusted it as tight as it would go & nothing, the pedal just isn't catching the cable, I then lossen it & the pedal will catch it, but it catchs it so low to the floor it's not gonna pull on it since there is so much slack on the cable. I checked the entire cable from beggining to end, no breaks, tears, splintering or twisting is present.
I just put this cable in in April too, only 3200 miles on it. What am I missing here? Why is it breaking at the same spot? is this a weak point for the cable?
__________________ 91 Tracker 4x4 5spd,
8v
Last edited by Tracker Tommy : 08-26-2008 at 05:14 PM.
did you remove the cable to feel the friction in the clutch fork rod ,
at bell housing,? just drop cable
move the lever. it moves way back (away from clutch face) and you can feel it.
if this movement is free , then its a bad clutch.
there are many failure modes on clutches.
besides just a worn out disc.
even a galled and seized input shaft that disc runs on can get mangled.
cracks in the pressure plate springs, or PPlate it self.
One PP finger spring can be damaged in 10 ways, bent, melted, warped, cracked, the possibles are endless......
if the hand test fails above , then it my be just dried out fork shaft bushings,
just oil them. ( and flex the shaft to work it in)
if seems free ,that fork shaft ?,
then time for a new clutch.
when it comes out , it always shouts , hey, look at me Im bad. (look careful)
look with powerful lamp and dust things off. look for cranks and heat color signs.
look at the input shaft to tranny , it must be smooth,.
it is not pedal linkage as that cant hurt cable, just itself.
it's a new clutch, less than a year old. The Mechanic that put the last cable in said that the pin thats old the cable in place inside the floor board was broken. I had the same symptoms last two times the cable went bad, hard to shift because the pedal would not grab the cable, than total failure.
Everytime i've put a cable in I have had to adjust the cable after a 100 miles or so, than it's fine for a few months & a few thousand miles. I dunno, maybe they are the wrong cables, I have seen you mention (JTGH) that there are many diffrent cables for this model.
Just too add some more info, the Trans was shiffiting fine, no whrring noises when out of gear, no throw out bearing noise, just when the clutch got harder to push in I would have to wait for it to warm up a little bit to get it into gear, but that was b4 the pedal stopped grabbing the pedal altogether, after searaching the entire forum I found a thread, the last thread in my search where a guy had the same prolbem as I am having & he had a stress crack in the fire wall where the clutch cable goes though, i'm thinking this maybe my prolbem as well, i'm gonna take it apart tomorrow.
In a ddition, I looked at some pics of the clutch cable at the bell housing lever & the pics actually looked similar to my track b4 I adjusted it to day. Although I did notice the rubber seahting was broken at the end exposing the cable itself. I'm thinking that most definatly the cable is broken @ the fire wall.
Also, I checked the cable routing, it was routed with ties to the fan shourd, the fan shourd actually pulled off in one spot, so I guess the constant cale movement pulled it apary, I cant see this having anything to do with the prolbem.
I think thats all the info I got right now, Anyone?
cable broke?
i thought you ment the cable snapped.? which is it. broke can meam many things.
a new cable a new clutch on a galled tranny input shaft can in fact jam.
and the ratio on the floor linkage is 6:1
so if you push 100lbs on the pedal ,there is 600 lbs on that poor cable!
the rule is , "irresistable force against and immovable object in physics or mech,eng"
they say to avoid this in any design. ( but it is not possible , on a clutch)
so back to the beginning. say exactly what happened to the cable.
did the inside cable snap ,or did the outside sheath fail.
i ask again.
did you remove the cable to feel the friction in the clutch fork rod ,
at bell housing,? just drop cable
move the lever. it moves way back (away from clutch face) and you can feel it.
if this movement is free , then its a bad clutch.
It must flop back and forth freely, does it?
there are 4 parts here.
bad Pedals. ( would cause bad clutch but would save the cable (no movement =save)
bad cable (was new now "Broken" in some way)
bad clutch. (new) ( but there are many parts to a clutch )
Bad fork shaft bushings.
now a bad sheath clamp at either end,fire wall or at the bell housing bracket would actually stop any cable snapping, unless said mount was so damaged that it is smashing into the center cable and causing it to fray.
the word new clutch means to me 1 thing, another person something else.
lots of parts there.
disc-plate,Pressureplate,throwout bearing, clutch lever bushings ,pilot bearing,clutch reface, and the infamous: transmission input shaft and its bearing.
that input shaft can have a huge wear points that are stepped in to the shaft. (galling)
the disc can jam on that shaft.
on worse, putting the disc on backwards (not you, youd know it by now).
yes, do not forget to properly remound the middle of the cable at the radiator.
most clone radiators are missing the mount. best is to make one and use a tiewarp
to a home made mount.
must not be flooping around.
That is what is on mine, now.
tells us more ,about exactly the damage of the cable, details.
Ahhhh ok, first I took the cable out from the fire wall, than I checked the housing on the cable, I was able to pull on the cable though the plastic covering, it was tight , I did not feel or see the cable at the bell housing move, than I disconnected the cable at the bell housing again, I'm not sure what you mean when you say does the lever flop around, if facing the front of the car I can move the lever with my hand ever so slightly, a little more than 1/4 of an inch, it does not move backwards from its normal set position, nor does it move side to side.
The sheeth part that broke is the part between the bellhousing lever & the next set of clamps & nuts that secure the cable.
I can move the shifter into all the gears when the track is off
Hope this helps.............now help me!
__________________ 91 Tracker 4x4 5spd,
8v
Last edited by Tracker Tommy : 08-27-2008 at 05:17 PM.
too many conflicting statment but...... good clutch bad mechanic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracker Tommy
Ahhhh ok, first I took the cable out from the fire wall, than I checked the housing on the cable, I was able to pull on the cable though the plastic covering, it was tight , I did not feel or see the cable at the bell housing move, than I disconnected the cable at the bell housing again, I'm not sure what you mean when you say does the lever flop around, if facing the front of the car I can move the lever with my hand ever so slightly, a little more than 1/4 of an inch, it does not move backwards from its normal set position, nor does it move side to side.
The sheath part that broke is the part between the bell housing lever & the next set of clamps & nuts that secure the cable.
you are saying the sheath broke but the cable inside is perfect from end to end?
"I can move the shifter into all the gears when the track is off
Hope this helps.............now help me!
back to the cable issue.
what ? is broken on it, will tell us what happened .
Lever:
I am talking 1st about the bell crank , that lever sticking out of the bell housing, when you disconnect the lever end from the cable end, it is free.?
now rotate that crank bell lever, (it operates the clutch throwout bearing)
it must be free to move back and forth front to rear, they have lots of extra room , if some yahoo didn't mess with the crank to shaft calibration.
see crank see bolt , hope someone didn't mess it up. by taking it off and then replanting it wrong. bad news that is.
that shaft has bushings, and they might be seized. (inside L/R bell housing)
just test that these are not in fact stuck or huge friction in the movement.
back to the cable:
it has 2 parts an outside and an inside.
if the inside and has snapped ,then most likely the clutch is bad or associated parts, tranny in put shaft (have you put eyes to it?)
you said it was a new cable that snapped?
I surmise the cable (inside) is snapped in two.
where it snapped , just happened to be at the your 2 points mentioned.
when it snapped , it put stress on the outer casing and it separated.
when all this happened you had 1/2" pedal free play and 1/0" inch at the bell lever.?
quote:
I check the Adjustment, & than adjusted it as tight as it would go & nothing, the pedal just isn't catching the cable, I then loosen it & the pedal will catch it, but it catches it so low to the floor it's not gonna pull on it since there is so much slack on the cable.
this is counter logical, if i loosen it , it gets tighter.
something really weird going on, where are you adjusting.?
I checked the entire cable from beginning to end, no breaks, tears, splintering or twisting is present.
you said the cable is broken, but that does not jive with above statement.
or are you saying the above and just saying my cable is broken in as a general term?
Are you in fact really saying the cable is perfect in every way.
Ok, you saidl.
Mechanic that put the last cable in said that the pin thats old the cable in place inside the floor board was broken.
so here is my guess, this guy had 2 choices , fix it right or jury rig it.? (non oem solution?, oem might have special tempered steel)
how come I guess #2.
this statement cures the other logical error above,
loosen = tighter.
maybe., (see when you tighten it, the cable sheath ends move, which is impossible if it is NOT in fact broken.)
ok 2 things must happen ,
the cable sheath must be solidly mounted on both ends.
at the Bell engine mount clamp, really tough that is ,not likely to fail.
next the Fire wall mount. Oops bad.
well its bad again. this time go to GEO or Suzuki to get your parts. (no bailing wire or roofing nails LOL !!!)
solution:
and troubleshoot this with 2 people, one pushes clutch and you tell to other
"look at both mounts , no moving of the sheath allowed ,
front or rear side of fire wall."
back to the cable issue.
what ? is broken on it, will tell us what happened .
Lever:
I am talking 1st about the bell crank , that lever sticking out of the bell housing, when you disconnect the lever end from the cable end, it is free.?
now rotate that crank bell lever, (it operates the clutch throwout bearing)
it must be free to move back and forth front to rear, they have lots of extra room , if some yahoo didn't mess with the crank to shaft calibration.
see crank see bolt , hope someone didn't mess it up. by taking it off and then replanting it wrong. bad news that is.
that shaft has bushings, and they might be seized. (inside L/R bell housing)
just test that these are not in fact stuck or huge friction in the movement.
back to the cable:
it has 2 parts an outside and an inside.
if the inside and has snapped ,then most likely the clutch is bad or associated parts, tranny in put shaft (have you put eyes to it?)
you said it was a new cable that snapped?
I surmise the cable (inside) is snapped in two.
where it snapped , just happened to be at the your 2 points mentioned.
when it snapped , it put stress on the outer casing and it separated.
when all this happened you had 1/2" pedal free play and 1/0" inch at the bell lever.?
quote:
I check the Adjustment, & than adjusted it as tight as it would go & nothing, the pedal just isn't catching the cable, I then loosen it & the pedal will catch it, but it catches it so low to the floor it's not gonna pull on it since there is so much slack on the cable.
this is counter logical, if i loosen it , it gets tighter.
something really weird going on, where are you adjusting.?
I checked the entire cable from beginning to end, no breaks, tears, splintering or twisting is present.
you said the cable is broken, but that does not jive with above statement.
or are you saying the above and just saying my cable is broken in as a general term?
Are you in fact really saying the cable is perfect in every way.
Ok, you saidl.
Mechanic that put the last cable in said that the pin thats old the cable in place inside the floor board was broken.
so here is my guess, this guy had 2 choices , fix it right or jury rig it.
how come I guess #2.
this statement cures the other logical error above,
loosen = tighter.
maybe.,
ok 2 things must happen ,
the cable sheath must be solidly mounted on both ends.
at the Bell engine mount clamp, really tough that is ,not likely to fail.
next the Fire wall mount. Oops bad.
well its bad again. this time go to GEO or Suzuki to get your parts.
and troubleshoot this with 2 people one pushes clutch and you tell other
look at both mounts , no moving of the sheath allowed ,
front or rear side of fire wall.
BINGO right ! ?
Lever:
I am talking 1st about the bell crank , that lever sticking out of the bell housing, when you disconnect the lever end from the cable end, it is free.?
now rotate that crank bell lever, (it operates the clutch throwout bearing)
it must be free to move back and forth front to rear
Ok, yes that is the lever i'm adjusting the cable from, I can move the lever forward, than it will set itself back to it's center postion, I cant move it back (towards the rear of the tracker) It's connected to somthing, I can hear stuff moving when i move the lever.
now you're makig me think that maybe the throw out bearing did go bad, because that would be how it would go bad, step on clutch, loose presure and straight to the floor.
Ok, you saidl.
Mechanic that put the last cable in said that the pin thats old the cable in place inside the floor board was broken.
so here is my guess, this guy had 2 choices , fix it right or jury rig it.
how come I guess #2.
After taking the mount out today im not even sure what he was talking about.
Is it possible that this was the wrong cable &it strecthed out? I don't see why these cables are so diffrent from each other.
when all this happened you had 1/2" pedal free play and 1/0" inch at the bell lever.?
I can not speak for the bell housing, ut the pedal had the proper amount of free play until, the last few days when I had to start mashing it to the floor to get it into gear, which was the same symptoms the last time it failed.
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Clutch cable..............AGAIN!
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