90 Tracker: acceleration issue

[bsg90]

Hi,

I have a 90 Tracker 1.6l 4WD with 180k miles on it that is having acceleration issues and have heard several conversational diagnoses.

Cold engine or not, there is hardly any power until the RPM's reach 2700 and then the car exceeds 10mph. A mechanic buddy of mine mentioned the torque convertor and another friend mentioned the stator clutch. I've never worked on/with either one of these, so the only thing I know is that the dealer wants $1350 for the torque converter. @.@ Will have to check RockAuto.

What do you all think? Oh yeah, while I don't exactly drive it like it is stolen, I do drive it.

EDIT:
I read this page about torque converters on wikipedia and point #4 (Blade deformation) is closest to my scenario from the following quote. Also, notice the bolded section below as my gas mileage is pretty pathetic.

Overloading a converter can result in several failure modes, some of them potentially dangerous in nature:

* Overheating: Continuous high levels of slippage may overwhelm the converter's ability to dissipate heat, resulting in damage to the elastomer seals that retain fluid inside the converter. This will cause the unit to leak and eventually stop functioning due to lack of fluid.

* Stator clutch seizure: The inner and outer elements of the one-way stator clutch become permanently locked together, thus preventing the stator from rotating during the coupling phase. Most often, seizure is precipitated by severe loading and subsequent distortion of the clutch components. Eventually, galling of the mating parts occurs, which triggers seizure. A converter with a seized stator clutch will exhibit very poor efficiency during the coupling phase, and in a motor vehicle, fuel consumption will drastically increase. Converter overheating under such conditions will usually occur if continued operation is attempted.

* Stator clutch breakage: A very abrupt application of power can cause shock loading to the stator clutch, resulting in breakage. When this occurs, the stator will freely counter-rotate the pump and almost no power transmission will take place. In an automobile, the effect is similar to a severe case of transmission slippage and the vehicle is all but incapable of moving under its own power.

* Blade deformation and fragmentation: Due to abrupt loading or excessive heating of the converter, the pump and/or turbine blades may be deformed, separated from their hubs and/or annular rings, or may break up into fragments. At the least, such a failure will result in a significant loss of efficiency, producing symptoms similar (although less pronounced) to those accompanying stator clutch failure. In extreme cases, catastrophic destruction of the converter will occur.

* Ballooning: Prolonged operation under excessive loading, very abrupt application of load, or operating a torque converter at very high RPM may cause the shape of the converter's housing to be physically distorted due to internal pressure and/or the stress imposed by centrifugal force. Under extreme conditions, ballooning will cause the converter housing to rupture, resulting in the violent dispersal of hot oil and metal fragments over a wide area.

Thanks,
Shad

[jtgh]

"having acceleration issues."

1: engine loss of power, ( happens in neutral or park too?) or only driving.?


2: transmission. do you hear the tranny slipping.
slipping is where the RPM's rise quickly and the car does on gain speed.
like running on banana peels. LOL. Dont need at tachometer, to hear RPM rise.

forget tranny parts for now , lets find out what is the fundamental problem.
engine power
transmission
or something is dragging like brakes.

lets proceed on the transmission vector.
if it slips , you are destroying it, (most likely)
#1 slip reason, low fluid.
#2 filter clogged ,starving pump and burning up bands.
#3 bad tranny (1000 parts take your pick)

ok here is my tranny page.
Slush pump diagnosis


is this an 8valve engine.
is this a 3speed tranny or is it a 4speed tranny, vast diffr. here.

any mechanic in 5minutes can identifiy a bad tranny , as you describe.
it slips, you can hear engine building huge amounts of power and car will not go.

try to describe the symptoms clearly. and we can run with this.

[bsg90]

Originally Posted by jtgh

"having acceleration issues."

1: engine loss of power, ( happens in neutral or park too?) or only driving.?


2: transmission. do you hear the tranny slipping.
slipping is where the RPM's rise quickly and the car does on gain speed.
like running on banana peels. LOL. Dont need at tachometer, to hear RPM rise.

forget tranny parts for now , lets find out what is the fundamental problem.
engine power
transmission
or something is dragging like brakes.

lets proceed on the transmission vector.
if it slips , you are destroying it, (most likely)
#1 slip reason, low fluid.
#2 filter clogged ,starving pump and burning up bands.
#3 bad tranny (1000 parts take your pick)

ok here is my tranny page.
Slush pump diagnosis


is this an 8valve engine.
is this a 3speed tranny or is it a 4speed tranny, vast diffr. here.

any mechanic in 5minutes can identifiy a bad tranny , as you describe.
it slips, you can hear engine building huge amounts of power and car will not go.

try to describe the symptoms clearly. and we can run with this.

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Here are the answers to your questions.

1. Only while driving.
2. It likes to kick in to 2nd from over drive sometimes even when I don't bury the accelerator.

The tranny is a 3-speed, 4wd automatic. 8-valve engine. The blog on my geo can be found here.

About three weeks ago, I did the transmission filter kit, so all fluid is now fresh. I forget how many quarts of fluid it called for, but I substituted the last quart out for Lucas Transmission fix. It helps the transmission shift out of 1st easier on a cold engine. I really should let my car warm up, but sometimes I'm leaving the house too fast due to poor time management. :P

I called Napa Auto Parts today and they quoted me $130 for a torque converter rebuild. I have two friends that have some car mechanic experience; Luke says it sounds to him like torque converter and Steve (who has 40 years of mechanic work) says it is more likely only 30% torque converter and 70% tranny. Steve has also test-driven my car last week. I'm not disregarding their input, but need to find enough info to make a sound decision.

Now that I've said all of that, I admit I haven't ready your article yet, but will hopefully this weekend and reply once again after reading it.

Thanks,
Shad

[jtgh]

i take it that the tranny is in fact slipping.
or is is just down shifting.
the 3 speed has no lockup TCC on most.

the bands can slip.
the TCC can slip ( but usually not on this car with full fluid)
then number 1 reason for bad slippage is low pump pressure.
there is a test for that , tranny on car , guage in hand.
there is a stall test for the converter, and all gears in the fsm , tranny in car.

all the tests are there and all them full manuals for rebuilt and full testing manuals are linked on my 1 web page.
all is there.

there is no reason to guess, unless , pump passes test and stall fails.

I am not a tranny pro or a tranny repair person, my experience is in finding what is really bad, and doing everything that can be done , tranny in car.

there are many things , that can be done,tranny in car. ( more than my list)

No tranny shop will EVER tell you that.

The stall tests , put a load on tranny and find the RPM you hit.
if it goes too high , it is bad.

Id bet on weak pump or shot bands. ( hope Im wrong)

cheers