Wiring Probs!

[tit-poute]

Hi!

I've juste finished getting a new 1.6 8v in my sidekick. all the wirings are connected exept for the negative cable. ive read somewhere that it goes on the top starter bolt... is this the one that maintain the starter and the trany together??

And other thing is....

Before my last engine died completely, i've tried to start it but after some normal starting sound.... everything stop! since then there's nothing... i turn the key on and my cluster dont light... nothing... my fuses seems all good. if it can help, the problem of my last engine was the crankshaft bearing.

Thanks a lot!

[jtgh]

neg. black battery cable goes to top starter bolt. only 2 bolts, top one.


ok, until you have the starter wire grounded, and the Plus red wire on battery,
you will have no power. there is body ground behind battery and fire wall grounds and 2 more grounds at DIZZY and thermostat house,
they must all be pefect, and clean your you will have problems.

Always remove Neg.battery term first, the put it back last or you will have
the risk of battery rupture or blow out the fuseable links . neither are fun.
not to mention battery acid flying all over. Sammis are fuse less in this circuit. (wow)
500 amps can make serious smoke and flying parts.

we just had an electician at work shut a large UPS, (about 5kw ) by not following the above rule and not using insulated tools, he has eye damage now.
I cringe when i see starters pulled and no battery cable lifted.


ok.
I take it you are saying my starter will not crank. right?

do you know how to hot wire a starter solenoid if the clutch or park interrupter opens or is broken?

[tit-poute]

Its good everything work exept the engine wont start... I think its a problem with my cap distributor that isnt going tdc a the same time as my engine

[jtgh]

please, say , wont start or wont crank.
two distinct functions.

Wont start !

there are many way to check spark , not all are equal or effective.

here is a little hint.

take a known good spark plug wire (could steal #1 wire now) and a known good ( any newand any PN) , fresh spark plug ( never used in any engine)
now connect it directly to the coil, (pull coil wire) and ground the shell of the the plug to the car body or engine block metal.

do not touch it, 50,000 volts can hurt reallllllly badddddd...
next:
crank the engine, spark must be a fat blue white flash. (not orange and weak)

if test passes , you do have spark! (distribution of spark to the correct plug at the correct time, is another matter completely)
if it fails , then you need help.

report back.

cheers.

Can I presume you tuned up the car (engine) ,new cap , rotor, plugs, wires, air filter, gas filter withing the last 50k, or on this used engine before swap.?
Caps and rotors do not last forever and carbon track and sometimes where you can not see,(inside). this shorts the HIGH VOLTAGE energe to ground .
That last statemene is for others , trying to fix a car sans tuneup.

[tit-poute]

Thanks for the spark advise but its not this... the engine crank but not start... seems like there's no fuel... when looking in the injection while putting the key on there's no fuel gettin in. ive disconect the return fuel line and all the fuel goes directly in the return. so its not a fuel pump problem. what can it be? do you know?


ooooo and... when i try to start it after a few sec it does backfire in the injection... some people says its the firing order but ive got it all set today... timing seems good too but i can recheck it. what do you think?

[CodyJ]

Well if its backfiring you are getin fuel...

Pull a spark plug & look for spark. Have someone crank the engine while you stand and watch that spark plug, its good to use an older one to test. I have read on newer cars this can short your ECU, but I have not had this problem on a tracker yet... it was on my exhaust manifold.

Then check the injector. Remove him from the throttle body and have someone turn the key and try to turn him over (DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE SPARK TEST ABOVE!) and be careful, its a mist/vapor of gasoline and is more explosive than just gasoline sitting...

Goodluck.

[jtgh]

ok ,
You are trying to say, my car cranks robustly but I can not start the engine !

first off 2 facts:
1: if the ECU detects NO spark there will never be no injection ! never.
2: check for return fuel is a basically useless test. most 90% bad pumps will pass this test.
the only valid test is an IN LINE TAPPED , pressure guage.
see my pump test page , it tells the correct way and has FSM photos for both 8v and 16 cars !

do not pull the injector ,sorry,you will need very hard to get o-rings to put it back.
that is the last step.


engine 1:
a: check compression , 150psi and higher cold , all cycliders. ( hot is more, but you can get hot , no run)
b: timing belt set as per my 8v timing page.
c: ignition timing set to TDC or close ( static before start timing). I have a timing page.
d: check for spark at coil and all 4 spark plugs , with a good fresh new sparkplug.
e: if spark is good, then check for priming pulse at key on , looking in throttle neck.
if not see priming pulse 3 seconds at key on, then crank and look, you must have
injections.
if e: fails , then check pressure at Fuel filter test port ,plug screw with gauge.
f: if pressure is good then check the injection signals with a $2 or rented NOID injector test lamp.

g: if fuel pump is low, below 30psi (see my pump page for full spec) then replace fuel filter, if filter replaced then replace fuel pump .
the regulator on front of TB could be stuck wide open ,keeping pressure really low.
this can be tested by pinching the hose at return line with key on and Test guage installed as per above.
if you can get 60psi for a 1 second pinch the the FP reg. is bad . (stuck wide open)

those are the proper steps in the proper order. (mostlY)

keep in mind, the fuel pump only runs for 3 seconds , at each key on, and then it stops.

cheers.

[jtgh]

an older one to test ? I what does this mean.

cody.
here is the ECU , issues.
on all electronic ignitions.

never short the spark plugs to ground ( circa 1960 style ) to find dead cylinders.!!!
this is really bad , it overloads the Ignitor.
rule 2, never run the spark plug wires or dissy, disconnected , as this creates very high voltages at the ignitor can can blow it up.
( this is called destructive VCE breakdown on transistors.)
some newer cars are less immune to these bad practices but this is the old cars.

Always have fresh wires and plugs, always , on EFI.
a fresh new plug (any heat range ) is the best test spark plug.
a fouled plug is just a piece of junk.


a spark plug makes plasma as it fires and has resistance .
it is never open ,nor shorted , as seen by the 50,000 volt coil.
it arcs and makes a plasma .

[CodyJ]

Does the spark plug testers do any better? Isn't hard to make one and shouldn't hurt the ECU; I know my method could and most likely would. But sometimes its done when you are desperate out of your mind.

[jtgh]

hi cody.
as long at the test jig , neither opens the circuit nor grounds it out, all is well.
Open = gap greater then about 1/2 inche/12mm.

a real sparkplug, a test spark plug , one of those inline flash gappers (i call them that).
all work fine.

so long as there is a small gap in the chain from coil output to ground , all should be well.

just unplug #1 , wire, put a fresh clean plug on the end and lay it on the valve cover.
dont worry the shell of the plug will fash over thru the grease to the ground.
do not hold it there with your hand , ok?
the gap in the plug is like 35 thou. so adding a thousands or 2 inches is not a issue.
see?
if you want to test the full spark at the coil , then remove the coil lead and attach a spark plug to that , then ground the shell to the body , block or any convient metal grounded object.

crank and look.
you really do not need a tool ,just any fresh plug, the heat range ,gap , or thread diameter is of no import. just a fresh clean insulator in the plug center !!!
so you can see what it really can do ?

I keep fresh wires (bulk) on my shelf just for tests like this.

you do know the inside of HV spark wires are usually just carbon dusted nylon string.?

and as it shakes , day in , and day out it can open a gap , mid wire and really muck up the igniton. that is why no mechanic ever trusts carbon wires. (assume the are bad)
replace them every 50k, and this will not happen to you .

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/check-spark.jpg

this is my favorite tool ,notice the easy way to ground it out.
one can weld on a clip or clamp one on to any new spark plug.
for years we did that.

notice the wide gap, this allows you to see the full power of your COIL and Ignitor ! a big fat blue/white Lightning bolt.

No touch , ok? i can really hurt bad.