Hey guys! Im new to the whole suzuki thing! I have an 86 sammy and just finnished a 1.6 8valve EFI swap.. Ive put on about 150km on the new motor That i rebuild from top to bottom before swap. Header, cold air intake, Perf Exhaust. It was running good but a little rich. So i decided to change some stuff to see if it will run better.
Ive replaced my O2 sensor the Air intake sensor and the temp sensor! And it's now running richer then before? I also put on a bigger fuel return line to the tank! If i start it from cold it runs fine then after about 30sec it drops down and surges up about 5-6 times! It almost falls on it face? Then it seems to idle fine? I tried disc the O2 when it is running and it makes no change? If i plug the O2 back in and Disc the map sensor it will almost die unless i keep it reved up. But then it seems to run better and no miss but it will die if i let go of the throttle. is my map sensor gone?
Cold start/fast idle mode is for it to run at 2000 rpm for like 30 seconds or so, and then start to drop down as the engine temp rises. It does kind of "hunt around" but on n a healthy engine it should be subtle drop 200 rpm, go back 100, drop another 200 go back up 100rpm until reaching a steady idle at 800.
Before I overhauled my 8v, mine was doing what yours is, hi-idleing at 3 or 4 K rpm and then bouncing up and down 1000 rpm at a time. Turned out my EGR vavle and passage thru the head was completely clogged up.
So do you know if your EGR is clean and check out this page: EGR-repair-methods
The engine is all new! The egr works great! It only go's up to like 1100 but then drops down to like 400rpm a couple times then smooths out at about 900-1000 rpm. Could this be my ECM that is causeing the problems?
exactly what is this new engine.?
what year was the doner ECU and engine and harness.
8v yes got that.
now what parts in the old car (engine and EFI and electrical ) is being used form the old car.? (engine , no ,but what is old)
is the old exhaust being used, hi perf. but what parts . All?
is the old or new cat in place. OEM or aftermarket.?
is the old headers being used. OEM or aftermarket.? or is this custom.
what old parts on on the new engine.? ( i guess at none but.. i have to ask)
exactly what does the frankenkick have in it.
what is missing, that was on the cars stock.?
your symptoms are bogging. if you step on the gas, and it dont go, that is called bogging.
if it is just minor, it is called hesitation.
do you have bogging or just surging but with full power?
surging is just RPM variance.
If you have wide open exhaust on a 91 to 95 8v ,the EGR mod. valve will not open.
MOD VALVE purpose is to MEASURE the exhaust Back pressure and scale EGR flow
directly proportional to this back pressure.
killing all back pressure will in fact kill the EGR. JUST PINCH THE EGR HOSE AND DRIVE.
if MOD does not open the EGR, will not open, if it will not open the EGR will fail and the air fuel mix will be horrible.
It all gets down to 1 fact, you must make the ECU happy.
so far we have people putting in high flow cats, but taking it out or rodding it or putting in straight pipe will defeat the EGR.
sounds like engine is rich at idle and lean at high rpms.
it is hard to go right to the problem, because we dont know what is in this kick.
on a swap there can be many problems.
I will assume you did a compression test to be sure engine is pefect.
top to bottom , means compression over 170 psi on all cylinders,right?
the ignition timing is at 5 deg. before top dead center , right.
and idle vacuum is about 19psi. ?
if egr stick open , the car will run like crap. it must not be allowed to do that.
if must open after 2k and close at WOT ( over 80% throttle) or under full load and never at idle. that is the rule set. if it is violated in any way the fuel maps are wrong.
the fuel maps are in fact designed and tuned for a working EGR.
what ECU you you have , -56B30 ? or -56B40 or are you in some non usa country that uses very strange ECUs , you do not give location or ecu data so we are forced to guess.
there are many ECU 's world wide, some dont even have a EGR !
DO YOU HAVE CEL LAMP, IS IT CONNECTED? does it glow at key on, no start.
tell us more,
the map sensor and all sensors on this 8v engine are easy to test, on car.
do you own a volt ohm meter.
did you know unplugging any sensor, makes the ECU mimic the missing sensor?
it will go a tad rich, or it you really confuse it , it may go to limp home or Backup.
there are special chips that allow this DUMB mode and car will run and have no power and will get 15mpg. its just for driving home.
but people get into this mode and wont fix car and wonder with ECU acts so dumb.
well it was designed that way, better have a backup , then be stranded right?
Every part in the engin is new Except fro the intake,oil pan,dizzy,throttle body. The ECu and the harness is out of a 93 tracker,Canadian model. Exhaust is all new! Calamini Header with a 2"exhaust with a flowmaster Muffler. New plugs,cap,rotor,wires, Timing was set a 8Deg cause thats what i was told to do? Vacume is good. It runs good when im driving it just a little miss when let off gas comming down a hill. Or when at idle and i rev it up it misses you can here it. And when im going down a hill and let off slightly you can feel it?Like its getting to much fuel. Check engine light just has a #12 so thats ok. IF i move the Egr when running it will die! I checked the injector buy cycleing the key 3 times and no leek into the throttle body. I will check the computer to see what my # is!! I dont know off hand?
thats ok,youres will be marked
56B30 , same as mine. 91 to 93 ( MT) change 30 to 40 for MT.
it is the most smog friendly.
yes, when you De-accel, the ECU , ramps fuel to zero easy so it doent jerk and
then feeds some EGR. to cut pumping loss, you will still get pumping loss ,but it wont be like a JAKE Brake.
TPS is bad. or EGR is not opening when it should.
luck 91 to 93 is easy to test in driveway.
here is the check right out of 91 manual 8v, (good to 93 no further)
the push diaphragm test , stall , you did that,good. exhaust path good.
now the tricky part:
below 8200 feet ,
engine hot( no 140F thermostats allowed , put in the correct 180 to 195d F stat)
says VSS, WTS, and TSP must be operational.
Neutral or Park , the tranny.
parking brake set
test 1:
check thet diaphragm does NOT open below 136F (cold engine) at greater than3500 RPM.
now warm up engine fully 180D F, min.
race engine again above 3500 rpm.
look at diaphragm again. the diaphram will open on accel and de-acceleration.
if it dont move, then the MOD valve is not opening, or the VSV is not sending vacuum to it. if the exhaust back pressure is too low the MOD valve will be dead or it will only open a tiny bit.
it is a proportional system, see that rubber tube at the EGr MAIN GOING up to the MOD valve, this tube must blow exhaust pressure to the bottom of the EGR MOD valve.
IT must, and that tube as it enters the main EGR is 1/16" diameter and LOVES to clog.
or there is not enough exhaust back pressure to operate the valve.
the TPS must be good and not noisy , or the ECU can not recognise that that you are do ing a DEaccel event. It measure the rate at which you cut fuel (gas pedal is cutting air actuall) and the ECU cuts fuel more agressively when you are more agressive with your foot.
that is the whole works.
good day,
PS , the TPS can be tested with any voltmeter. it must be smooth
make sure your map sensor hose is not melting like mine did.
TPS, unplug the connector. ( fuel injector is shared)
ohm meter :? set to 2k ohms or auto range.
short test leads, does it say OL or OVR , this means a short.
meter is ready .
go to here. , mid page, is TPS, full spec there, EFI-sensor-theory
pretty nice huh.
measure A to D.
if open circuit , try Rx20k or Rx10 range on meter, if still no indication of resistance the TSP is for sure bad.
that is called an END to END test.
if pass that
then
check B to D, 0 ohms (OL) to 6.5k at WOT (wide open throttle)
while doing this make sure the values do not jump, a real meter NEEDLE type meter works best for this test or a digital meter that has the bar graph on the the bottom.
that graph shows analog ohms and will show if you have a NOISY POT.
the TPS is Just a simple POT. or variable resistor, and when the get old they start
jumping, just like a noisy volume control on a radio or stereo amplifier.
if it is jumpy the TPS is SHOT.
Last test.
THE TPS switch ,
it must be closed at idle and open off idle.
if not , it is either bad or not calibrated,per the manaul.
0 = or less than 100 , is good. ( most read 1 ohm or less)
infinity is open. (meter shows open indication OL. or O.R. overload, or OverRange)
every meter shows infinity diff. just go to ohms , leave leads open and what you see
on the LCD is how your meter does this function.
better Digital multimeters have the bar analog graph on the bottom.
symptoms of TPS switch bad. (the actual idle switch)
1: car will stall.
2: car will run like crap, off idle.
this is because:
a: ecu shuts off Idle controls when this switch opens, so idle ends and engine stops.
b: car is using idle tables to run off idle , always a bad thing.
Not disrespect to Thomas E. Crapper the man that invented the toilet.
Hehehehehehehehahahahah LOL
I checked my EGR and The TPS and both were ok with in specs. But i changed them with my extras that i had and no change? So we played with some vacume on the MAP sensor. If we place 10kph vacume I thinks thats how its read? Not LBS?? BUt anyways if i apply 10 to the map sensor it runs great no miss and no hesitation? Could my map sensor be bad?I also noticed i dont have the little filter on mi line? Could that be a problem?
I have good vacuume off the intake about 15-20 butit will spike to about 25-30 when i let off? Is that right? Also the modulater valve on top of the Egr IS the "p" close to the fire wall and the "q" to the front of the motor? Im trying to figure all my vacuume lines out cause when i got the motor they were all missing? If anybody ahs some good pics or Diagrams that would be sweet!!
everyone has different expectations?
some just :
1: want it to run off road ,devil be damn smog, gas usage and all that and so what if I need to change sparks out every 1000 miles or so. ( that's cool)
2: want it to run perfect but love removing things. ( give it a try, few parts are extra)
3: want 25 to 30 mpg , so they can do the DD (daily driver thing) and not go broke on gas. ( most , huh?)
every one is diff in regards to these modes, or mind sets.
But I can tell you for a fact the EGR flows are included (Hard coded in the PROM) for all AIR fuel ratios per below:
cruising hot, and not Idle, and NOT WOT, and Not under heavy load (HigH MAP pressure)
so when cruising down the freeway ,at 60mph ,with light loading , a missing EGR will really make the car run like crap.
that is how it works. (it is fully integrated in to the fuel maps)!
We get 100 questions like this a year here.
if you dont believe me ?, just take the hose the leaves the EGR VSV valve can punch it with any clamp device and drive, the EGR is NOW dead. (assuming main valve is not leaking)
try it. see the results. ?
that is the EGR thing.
there are ECU's in far away places that are diff. I am talking USA, Canada,and CALif. here. not Africa , or OZ ,or NZ or some south pac. or carib. island.
there are many markets for Sidekicks, not the same as our ECU's .
And they ARE different ,each.
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Running rich with a miss?
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