Not happy with G16B 16v install in Samurai (UK)

[bobby-gg]

OK, here is the situation.

I’ve recently installed a 16v from a 1995 5 (Japan) Vitara, complete with the wiring loom and ECU (57B3) into my Samurai

Whilst I’m happy with the overall performance gains, I’m not happy with it’s lack of bottom end, a perfect example of this is a road near my house which I use a lot, rolling up to the junction in second gear, check to see nothing is coming and pull out still in second, the car just trundles along until it creeps up to 2500 rpm, then bang – away it goes, basically it doesn’t pull below 2500rpm.

My Sammy is also a 1995 with TBI, so I already had HP fuel pump and VSS so I had no issues there, and I’ve also fitted a janspeed performance manifold so the EGR is no longer used, I’ve left the plug off the ERG solenoid and I’ve no carbon canister so that solenoid is unplugged too.

New plugs, dizzy cap rotor arm and leads have been fitted along with the fuel filter, and tonight I’ve tested the intake system for leaks using easy start spray over it with no leaks found.

I’ve just removed the ISC to confirm that it’s operating and not blocked and the throttle body looks good too but I’ll clean it and fit a new gasket whilst it’s off.

I think it’s running slightly lean until it hits the magic 2k5 rpm and then it’s like a rocket but this ain’t any good in offroad situation where I need the low down power!

Oh, and if I short the diagnosis connecter I get code 12!

Any ideas where to go next?

Thanks,

Rob.

[Rhinoman]

Thats quite a specific description of the problem and unfortunately the prognosis isn't good. If you're really lucky then someone has just made a hash of replacing the timing belt. What you describe is the classic symptom of a bad keyway on the main crankshaft pulley. Theres a thread on here from a couple of weeks back, I can't find it now but it tallies with what you describe. The valve timing is shifted so it behaves like its got a really badly designed performance cam.
Sorry, I didn't twig that when you posted on Difflock.

[bobby-gg]

Just checked the cam timing out, the marks were spot on, the only thing I did find is that the bottom pulley bolt was loose allowing the spocket to move slightly but thats all I found

The belt has been replaced since new, it had a quinten hazel one on and I found a few of the cam cover bolts missing.

Just need to finish fitting the fan and shroud and it's going doen to Langdale on Saturday so I'll see if it performs any better offroad.

Oh, and I did it all with the radiator still in place, mine is a pig to get out with my winch install

[Silentbob]

I think what Rhinoman said is still valid, especially since you said the pulley was loose. Remove the pulley altogether, and check the key on the nose of the crank, even though it might now feel tight to the touch, if the keyway is screwed, the pulley may have rotated on the crank and thrown your timing out.

Going off the markings at that point is useless.

If it is the case, and slips any more, best case your motor won't run, worst case, it won't run again...ever. Get it checked.

[bobby-gg]

Yeah, I'll strip it again after this weekend and check the key way, would of done that tonight but I couldn't get the inner crank pulley off, I take it that it's meant to slide off quite freely, mine didn't want to so that could be the symptom of a worn key

[jtgh]

above,and also.
we dont have 57b 's here just 58's
but our 58Bs all hate EGR removed, it will run like crap here with that removed.

the ECU AFR maps are tuned for the EGR working, remove it and all the tuning is wrong.
seriously wrong. (in effect your are substituting air for exhaust gas and that greatly changes the AFR)

the evap tube that went to the evap VSV must be plugged not unplugged,or it will suck air and the same goes for all VSV you unplugged. the source vac , must be plugged solid. (sorry if that is obvious)


the 57B european ECU might well have very strick operations for the EGR.
I;d put it back (EGR), if it runs better on the low end your good.


dont for get to torque it to the new spec, 94 ft/lbs , all manuals are wrong on this.
FSM , Haynes, Chiltions, etc, I have the TSB if you want it , stating this fact.

funny how no one ever seems to torque it with the flywheel locked.

and there is a new Loctite just for crank key ways.
need number , hollar.

[jtgh]

anyone with a new kick engine, should first measure the torque with a torsion breaker bar type torque wrench ( and measure the force to loosen it )
if it is like 10 to 40 ft/lbs that the last guy did a poor job of doing it. ( bells ringing)
if it is 75 and above, it most likely is ok. but....
but Id still look the first time .

who knows, you might find it was cobbled up many times before.

please tread carefully, remove the 17mm bolt, if it is really tight over 100 ft/lbs.
then heat just the bolt head with a torch, as the last guy may have used blue loctite and this
is the proper procedure to remove blue code.
keep an open mind. dont just gorrilla it off .
Use only the red code , please.

that blue is murder.

in your case you have already looked but i post this for your and others how read it.

[bobby-gg]

Right, this morning I rigged up my DTI to No4 piston and found true TDC

Turns out the crankshaft (Timing) indicator was running approx 10 deg retarded!!!!!

But the samurai flywheel index was absolutly spot on

I would say that my cam timing was running at about 5 deg retarded, so as a quick fix I've advanced the cam timing one tooth, which should give me approx 4 degrees advance on the cam.

Just had it out for a spin on the road and the diffence is night and day, will now pull 4th gear from 1000rpm and in the lower gears - wow, hold on baby


I really should look into getting an offset woodruff key to allow me to set the cam timing straight up, but for now I'm more than happy.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Rhinoman, it was your statement "really badly designed performance cam" that got me looking into the cam timing

Rob

[Silentbob]

Well, you have found the issue, but the cause is probably because the pulley has spun on the crank nose. You need to fix that before using it really, otherwise it will just spin again and your problem will return.

I am off to the workshop to check my Crank now...

[jtgh]

oops, another one,
2 this week.


very sorry to here you have this issue.

here is a list of fixes ,this year.

1: new key ( and or cog as appropriate )and pray
or
2: new key ,and that magic loctite glue just for crank snouts. (have link)
or
3: weld new key in , old pos.

or
4: cut new key slot on back slot and time 180 out.

5: new crank
or

6: fill old key and cut new one in place.

no order. here, just a compendium of what was said , all year.

hope that helps.

i skipped new crank,kinda abvious.