Diagnostic Interfaces

[Rhinoman]

Following on from the tail end of this thread:

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...nce-chips.html

I have been looking over some workshop manuals for earlier Vitaras and it seems that UK models may well have the same diagnostic interface as the US models. The schematics in the workshop manual show a diagnostic line that appears to be seperate from the CEL. The connector is below the dash rather than in the engine compartment. There is also a code reader made by Draper:
DRAPER EXPERT TOYOTA/SUZUKI FAULT FINDER [69059] - £12.70 : draper tools - hand tools, power tools, air tools, diy & more.

I always assumed that this simply replicated the paper clip trick. Does anyone have this scanner? does it plug in under the dash or under the bonnet/hood?
Cheers
James

[jtgh]

Thanks for your interest in this !!!

Subject ALDL , assembly Line Data Link , communication's ( simular to CROME ALDL on Honda's)
We just like to data log the sensor data and see closed loop, what help that would be.

that is the ALDL comm port and also can be used for capturing the blink codes.
yes, the vitaras and sidekicks and trackers are all the same this era, focusing on EFI.
but there are diff,types, 1,2,3 and some have carbs. but the ones the look the same .
are very nearly the same. (best I can tell) SE416 they are called.
there are 15 EURO models.
the 3door, type one in uk has the same ECU as mine. -56B30 code e22 ,canada made.8v.
some schematics leave aldl out and others show it.(fsm)

links:
ALDL OBD1 OBD cable OBDI OBD2 engine codes

you are correct the paper clip trick is used at the ALDL connector too. just
like and DLC next to battery, in fact some schematics show interior DLC as the name.

All GM dealers here, have a Tech 1 scanner and a plugin for OBD2 and tracker.
they plug into the ALDL under the steering column.
adjacent to it is the RWAL brake , diag connector ( do not confuse it ,as it IS right next to ALDL)

more here (Enough to keep me busy late at night)

GM 8192/160 Baud ALDL Interface

cheers, jerry

[jtgh]

facts:
8v engine, has A20 on ECU as Serial data. Viol/Green
16v engine , has B 16 ECU pin as serial data. same color.

the cheap schematics for this car just shows this wire going in to a box which says DLC. (a off page area that does not exist on their prints)

to see the real wiring , one must have the real FSM schematic (last 2 pages) to see the exact detail of this. will send it to you tomorrow. (its at home)
conn.1 is RWAL, right next is ALDL not labled.

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/brakes/CODE-PLUG1.jpg



here is the tool that works ( the only one, i believe , professional)

http://carfix.stufftoread.com/tools/TECH%201/

can show:
can access:
Engine Speed
Desired Idle
Coolant Temp
Air Temp
Throttle Position
Throttle Angle
MAP
Injector Pulse Width
O2S
OX Activation (open or closed loop)
Spark Advance
Short Term Fuel Trim
Long Term Fuel Trim
ISC Duty
Idle Switch
MPH
Electric Load
System Voltage
EGR Solenoid
Rich/Lean Status

[Rhinoman]

There was no RWAL on UK models, that was a US system. I have an FSM for an 8V (99500-60A10-01E) which shows SDL,rather than ALDL on pin A20 (also violet/green). Unlike the FSMs for the Jimny and Grand Vitaras it doesn't mention a scanner, it just details the paper clip trick. I've seen the ALDL stuff, I did a lot of research when trying to get into the interface on my late 8V ECU. ALDL was really a GM format, our ECUs are DSM or Densos so the protocol could be very different. I have a couple of PCBs from 8V and 16V ECUs which I can try.

[jtgh]

yes, and THANKS!
I dont know for sure . (buy scoping it and looking) but
I do not have a real suzuki manual set, only a GM geo tracker set. 91 and 95.
so they might be different . my Tracker car has a Suzuki ECU , so I can look there.
I suspect my 91 ecu uses SDL , because the manual does not mention the ALDL or the Tech1 or ever mention using Tech1 ever in the trouble shooting sections chapter 6E.
my 91 tracker Fsm shows monitor conn. with 7 pins, including rwal and speed sensor taps. serial data, ground and diagnosic command pin. SDL?

My 95 Gm Tracker FSM shows ALDL all over the Trouble shooting section.
on this gm tracker car , it shows 2 DLC connectors, one by battery and other just to the right of the ECU.
it shows the Tech1 reading 27 diff. live parameters. 26 for federal 1 more for calif.
on page (95 fsm) 6e2a14 it shows the DLC,(aldl i think) with
12 pins, A to M and is labled Serial data out.

so I think 92-95 is ALDL and 91 and older are SDL. just a gut feeling.

looks like a need a SDL interface and hand shake program to talk to my 91.

thanks again.

[jtgh]

i got my good spare 91 ecu connected to my bench tester. ( used in another project)
scope, pulse gen, and hp power supply. connected. dash 56B40 ECU. (8V-AT)

i have all sensors connected or simulated and I have injection and spark.

the output of A20 is 5v all the time. (serial data line)
my veh. DLC has 10 pins. under dash.
from pin 1 to 10 they are:
rwal diag,nc, ground, ecu diag req, nc, rw speed 1 , rw speed2, 12vdc, ecu serial and pin 10 is nc.

I tried every thing i ca,n to get the serial pin to wiggle ,
it will not send serial data out.
tried power cycles , nothing bursting out.
tried envoking , diag mode, nothing.

conclusion, it must be a bidirectional serial port and must need commands.
I suspect one needs to run disassembly of the code to find , access.

JUST my silly hope of this old unit has broadcast logging like the early GM obd1 ecus.
was worth a shot.541
I have only experience with 27cxxx eproms and the like and 8051's with internal eproms. how to pull the code pages on this ECU , i do not know.
I would expect even the pin outs of both SMD chips ,to be proprietary to misubishi.?

thanks for you information.

how does SDL , talk?

[jtgh]

ps: I THINK the confusion is many techs here and other places , use the tech1 for gm and trackers both and assume the trackers are ALDL , but as you say no they are not,
the plug in for the Tech1 scanner must have a SDL , adaptor.
but no one is the wiser.
do you have any info on SDL protocol?

thanks and cheers to you.
jerry

[Rhinoman]

I have some information on the SDL here:

Diagnostics

If you don't have an external EPROM then the two larger ICs should be an MH6111 processor and an ASIC that handles timing and diagnostics. AFAIK neither IC can be read or reprogrammed. These are proprietary ICs and no information has been made available for them. The processor is based on the old 68HC11, one day I will try the debug interface and see if I can get any comms.

You have a pin called 'ECU DIAG REQ' have you tried taking this pin high with a 10K resistor?

[jtgh]

ECU Diagnostic logging on the serial PORT:

i tried taking it low, for the code 12 blink request pin. A3. (course that;s not it)

i will try 10k tie high trick, next.


thank you for the clues, and the LINK !!


I will check the values, of your parameters chart,
to see if i can give the "$13, $04, $0D, $DC" command.

to understand, I should get
in hex. back from ECU , the following in hex data:
13,04,xx, zz

where xx, is TPS value in hex
and zz is ( actual check sum , including 13 + 04 ? , dont matter, I will ignore CS)

If i can get this to work , I am sure I can find many other params and add them to your list !

I have pots on all sensors and have a reaL MAP sensor and vacuum source.
so I can control each parameter , and freeze all but one , to identify which field is what value.

i can control rpm , vacuum (load) totally. with my test jig.

i have some 386asm code and C code that can be modified easy to make a logger.
including the programming of the 16550 Uart for these wired baud rates, 16x scaler .
I might get good old Procomm to work for this (a dumb terminal emulator program)

thanks again.
jerry

[jtgh]

i understand the difficulty in finding the correct baud.
since the Uart is non-return-to zero format. (so a freq ,counter is no help, just a scope is best , measuring the start bit period with a trailing 0 data)

you must have keep sending the commands at all bauds until you found the sweat spot?
lots of patience ,that took.
thanks for doing that !

cheers