Camshaft bearings (at least) problem

[cheeryble]

Hi there
this is not very model specific I guess, but 2000 or 2001 Vitara 1.6 with maybe 110-120,000km.

I was driving at low speed a mile after leaving home, came to a corner, and the engine stopped. Would not start there was a sort of whine on trying but not one I associate with the starter motor spinning without bendix engaging (not quite sure about this). In fact I "drove" ten yards using the starter motor and first gear.
Called the local man as I was in an awkward place. He took it to his shop (I'm in Chiangmai Thailand) and wanted to inspect the camshaft not sure why my Thai wasn't technical enough. They opened a camshaft bearing and there was considerable wear leading away from the oil hole. He said he thought they could do the job by what he called "cut" which in Thai means something like "sandpaper" or "smooth" the bearing and that parts wouldn't need replacing. He did say he would need to inspect the whole oil system down to the pump.
I decided overnight to send my car to the Suzuki main dealer and went back. They had now opened all the bearings and removed the camshaft. ALL the bearings except the two end ones showed considerable central scoring.
Can I presume the bearings started to seize?

Anyone have any experience of this?
It looked like one solid piece of metal but presumably the camshaft bearings are in the form of a liner. Right? Can they just be tapped out and replaced?
Is it possible the cam belt (it was still tight) could have jumped....engendering a piston/valve collision? Could one check this without head removal?

Thanx v much
John

ps: Inside cam cover looked a nice clean light brown oil film no dirty residue.


cheers John

[jtgh]

wrong forum section, but same a 1.8L sport, so ok.
loss of oil pressure to top end,

bad idea to fix symptoms before fixing PRIAMARY ROOT problem.
he should have measure oil pressuer first. #1

you may need a new oil pump. some have a chain, that could snap.
then top end oiling.

then fix cams last.

first things,first as they say.

cheers

[cheeryble]

Thanx JTGH
well I wonder if it was possible to measure oil pressure running on just the starter motor.....

Regardless....I'm sure they will go down to open the oil pump....you think it has a chain eh? Apart from that it seems hard to imagine it going wrong?
Would one worry about the main bearings as well? Is there any way to check for interference between pistons and valves without removal of the head?

thanx a lot
John

[jtgh]

all you know now, is you lost pressure.

the why is the most important reason.
then comes damage assessment.


did you run it low in oil?

it is good to check oil level every other gas tank full on all cars and trucks.
if car or truck is know to burn oil,one checks every day.

i once drove a high mileage 626 mazda (300k miles) for 3 years, it burned a quart of oil
per week, I checked it daily and i never lost the engine. ( my little experiement)
I sold it and told new owner this issue.
he may be still driving it .
cheers.

PS:
id inspect every single babbit bearing in the engine, maybe one is SPUN.
everything connected to that oil gallery needs an inspection.
IMHO.

[cheeryble]

Suzuki have changed filter, oil, replaced the belts, fixed a broken pin on the cam drive wheel which I didn't quite understand about, put back the camshaft and are happy it's OK without having to go right through the engine. They said I hadn't serviced for 7 months and the oil was dirty. I asked about the camshaft bearings and they said there are none which is what it looked like. The camshaft simply spins in the semicircle cut into the aluminium cylinder head top. I said is that going to be OK they looked scored and they said they believe they will be OK which sounded iffy but which is what the first mechanic had said. I am a longterm custimer and so are friends of mine so I tend to trust them.
You reckon they're right JTGH?
John

[jtgh]

yes, sounds like the the oil, went way South, what brand and what weight of oil were
you using? How many miles in 7 months? 10k , 15k?

that is correct but those are the bearings, they are cast in place bearings.

I recommend oil changes no greater than 5k or even less.
it cut 7 months in half, 3.5 months change oil. 7 is a oman for this car, avoid it.

cheers

[cheeryble]

Sorry JTGH don't know which oil they put in I added 15/50 a couple of times....is that Ok for hot climes like here?

I had some bad news. Suzuki got the engine running. They called me because after 20 min they found a small water leak and I need a new head (that alone about $850 in your money....that's a whole lot of money out here). Already replaced leaky rad and water pump whilst it's accessible. They are now going to take the whole engine out and check all the bearings which ain't a bad thing I'd say.
What I'm interested in is the owner there said there are no Babbitt shells, the camshaft sits directly into semicircle cut in the aluminium head. My friend who hasn't stripped an engine since overhead cams were invented couldn't believe it.
What do you reckon? Has he got it wrong? Is some sort of surface formed on to the contact area?
thanx John

[jtgh]

your cams are pretty much industry standard, and same as most motorcycles.
which have used SOHC and DOHC way before most cars knew what it was.
with normal oil changes , these heads last for the life of the whole engine.
dont forget the the the 60 psi oil pressure, prevents metal to metal contact.
when that fails , all bets are off , see?

maybe you have a cracked head, and this crack , transgresses into the top end oil gallery, so maybe that is the real failure, not the bad bearing surfaces.
I suspected a loss of oil , first thing, I still say that.
He will look carefully now.

dont forget used heads are available world wide.

this engine sounds to me like it over heated , at least 1 time.

heads can be welded and they have a process that relaxes the head and dewarps them.
depends of damage extent. they can do amazing things to a head in a quality machine shop. new is a last resort for most folks.
and $850 is a ton a money.

[JJJoseph]

Originally Posted by cheeryble

Is it possible the cam belt (it was still tight) could have jumped....engendering a piston/valve collision? Could one check this without head removal?

No need to do this - neither the 1.6/8v nor the 1.6/16v is an "interference" engine. Even if the belt jumped a sprocket, or breaks, no mechanical harm results. It just needs a new belt and retiming. If the belt breaks, it has symptoms like you described (sounds like no compression), but no bearing problems result.

[kelikran]

JJJJoseph, right about the 8V, wrong about the 1.6 16 valve. Big time interference there.
Demolition derby with pistons and valves as participants. No winners.