Hi all, the distributor on my vitara has an internal coil and is from what I can gather the main dizzie used on the X-90.
The part number on it that I have had the most luck in finding a replacement is T2T59071, it is made by Mitsubishi.
There is a good chance that my cam angle sensor is stuffed, so I was hoping someone could tell me if I will need to purchase the whole unit or can these cam angle sensors be replaced? At the moment I am highly doubting that they can be replaced but thought i'd ask anyway.
My reasoning behind a stuffed CAS is I am fitting an aftermarket ECU, however the ECU is not receiving a pulse from the CAS so it never knows the engine is turning so no spark. Friends of mine have been able to make a false pulse signal to be recieved by the ECU by applying power to the new loom, so we know the ECU recognises the signal. The nature of the new ECU has the coil windings apply spark on initial startup, so we discounted the coil as the problem. We have also tried changing the wiring going into the dizzie plug to rule out wiring diagram faults.
I still cant tell what you have.
so far I can tell it is a 16v engine.
I gather you cant hook up stock ECU and fire it up to prove Dizzy is ok.
what year engine.?
let me explain the electronics to you.
this dizzy has a nice hall effect buffered CAS. ( makes PERFECT square waves it dose)
that means it is not the crappy signal like a VR sensor.
All hall sensors on most cars have 1 of 2 types of buffer driver.
type 1: a totem pole , in that it can drive a HIGH and Low.
or
Open collector.
if yours was Totem pole it would be working aready.
but no we have open collector driver. ( explained in your other posts)
this means it can drive a LOW , but NEVER a high.
your ECU must have a PULL UP resistor on the output of the Dizzy.
The CAS makes the LOWS and the RESISTOR makes the HIGHS. see?
No resistor , there will never be a high logic signal ,ever.
your vendor (microtek should have asked for your dizzy see?)
your dizzy can be tested on the bench
it has 3 pins.
one pin is 12vdc
another is ground.
another is output.
connect a 12v batttery to the +12v pin and ground . correct polarity.
now take any LED and attach the short leg (-) of LED to the ground at the dizzy
now solder a 600 ohm (about) resistor to the long LED leg,
now connect the other end of the resistor to the Dizzy output pin.
now spin the dizzy , see it flash ! Winky BLINKY. 4 blinks per REVOLUTION.
see its good. that dizzy.
If you need a drawing of all this, let me know.
notice that my LED and resistor form a PULL UP resistor circuit.
put dizzy back in car , time it statically.
now connect the ECU to dizzy,
now take the 600 ohm resistor and place it from 12vdc pin to the dizzy output pin.
resistor one side to 12v pin and the other end to the dizzy out pin.
simple huh, just 2 connections.
crank engne.
you will now see RPM indication on your new ECU , computer link.
my ECU software presents RPM as Cas pulses, the ECU then generates SPARK from these pulses.
that is all there is to that.
The cas can be tested with a scope or any LED with a resistor.
This LED forms a simple and save low current test light.
the Megsquirt web site has all this NFO , in fact how to make any ignition work.
ANY !
if you want you can just leave the LED hooked up forever just like the above
and it will flash forever , letting you know the CAS in your dizzy is alive and well.
the resistor can be 500 to 700 ohms , is not critical.. but in this general range will
give the 0.020 amps of flow needed to make it nice and bright.
No, stock ECU was damaged.............. possibly to make room for a hidey hole
'97, in my profile.
The ECU was sent back to Microtech with dizzie, they said bench test worked.
There is an LED on the new ECU that gives a timing pulse ie on- off- on- off etc, this does not happen with any wiring combo but does occur with a dodgy signal ie 12v to signal wire with an on- off manner.
Was unaware of the resistor, will have to test and get back to you.
Have conferred with my elec guru mate, the three wires coming out of the cam angle side of the plug are 12v, 4 pulse signal for each cylinder per engine cycle and lastly 1 pulse per passing of TDC no 1 cyl per cycle. That's the way I understood it anyway.
ok, to try and shed some more light on evo's problem...
The dizzy is a mitsu 4G15 and according to the microtech diagrams puts out two positive pulse trains, they looks to be for TDC and one every 1/4 of a rotation. JTGH i have read over everything you have said and do agree with what you've said, Thanks for telling me that the output is an open collector. Untill now i had no idea what it was or how it worked.
All the information that i have so far has been attained from microtech in Australia and if its wrong i am sorry but thats all i have to go on.
some back ground on the problem:
a microtech lt10s was ordered for a 97 G16B, when it arrived i looked the the wiring diagrams and it appeared that they had sent us a microtech that had been configured for a reluctor type dizzy with an external ignitor and dizzy. I contacted maztech (a microtech reseller that i deal with) and told them of the problem, they rang back a few days later and said to ship them the microtech and the dizzy to them so they could have a look for themselves because as far as they were aware evos car wasnt supposed to have that setup.
no worries... so we sent the comp and dizzy away. it came back reconfigured for a hall effect and for evos situation etc. with new diagrams and new cas loom. So we wired it up and put it in. when we went to start the car we could see that there was no spark. we looked at the light on the microtech that pulses with the signal from the microtech. We found that is wasnt blinking which meant that the cas wasnt sending out and pulses. I double checked the wiring and manually got the coil to fire buy applying 12v to the ignitor and seeing a nice bright spark at the plug.
So that meant that either the cas was stuffed or the microtech was setup wrong. I leaned more towards the cas being stuffed so we organised for a mated dizzy to be swapped into evos motor, same problem no cas pulse
I assumed that the wiring was incorrect so the weekend just gone i brought home a cro from work and went throught the 6 different combinations of wiring for the cas to no effect. we tested the outputs (as the microtech info states two outputs from the cas) no pulses on the cro at all.
this lead me to belive that the cas was stuffed again.
untill JTGH informed us that its open collector i couldnt work out the problem.
I cant understand why, if microtech had it working on there bench and they said that its all ready to go, that we cant get it to work. Clearly microtech has lied to us or has failed to configure the microtech ecu correctly. if they have forgotten to add the pull up resistor it would explain our problems 100%
JTGH i will make the led circuit that you have described and hopefully we will see it blink like a little champion.
see you at work evo, ill have that circuit for you tomorrow and you can test it tomorrow night.
YOur drawing shows exactly the issues of using an Open Collector Hall effect CAS.
the only issue is whether to pull up to 5v or 12v, and only your ECU vendor can answer that questions.
but... if their ECU was designed correctly , it would take either (IMHO).
i presume you mean the NEW ecu is running fine but the motor is dead.?
I presume you started from a known running motor. ? compression good, cam timing good, injection good.
If you have spark , here is what Id do.
pull spark plugs and keep them connected HV ignition wires (proper load).
then connect timing light to #1 and crank motor and see WHERE new ECu and ignition
is IT nailing the Fire Point correctly 30 Deg. Before TDC would be bad,
if way off set it to factory spec. or to 0 degress.
Factory is 5-8 degress ,depending on year.
Every ECU has its own way of generating the timing.
and will be way different than the stock OEM ECU.
On my MS , the first step is to deskew the ECU to Static timing.
you get it started by setting the static timing to about 0
then after car starts you , go into a menu and set the number on the screen to exactly
what the Crank marker shows. this Deskews the ECU for ever.
the ECU now knows where 0 is located.
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Cam angle sensor
Linear Mode
