Well, I have owned my 96 suzuki sport JLX 4x4 for now 4 months now and have had a few major problems. The mileage is 68K.
First I had a problem with mass air flow sensor, the RPM would just drop like anything and could not get AC to work because of that. Anyway, got that fixed. a couple of months later I noticed some leakage so took it to my mechanic and he said that the water pump is bad. So had that replaced. Labor & parts cost me around $500. After which I started noticing a strange phenomena. The needle that shows the "engine temperature" went crazy. I mean, in the beginning, it would be normal. showing temperature at the normal angle. then as soon as I would go past 50 miles per hour it starts dropping. And hits the "c" cold indicator. so I took it back to my mechanic and he changed the thermostat. The next day, I noticed the same thing so took it back, again he changed the thermostat but again the same problem. The engine gets really cold to the point that the needle goes all the way to "c" and the hot air becomes "cool". Now, chicago is cold, but, I have never owned a car that does this. and my mechinic is getting sick of me showing up everyday.
So here is what I did. I called up the suzuki dealer and ordered a OEM part (thermostat) and when it comes I am hoping this will solve the problem.
By the way before the replacement of the waterpump this never happened. And with so few miles, I just don't know what other stuff can be wrong. Suggestions are welcome! Thanks,
does your heater work?, You didnt say, very important !
or is your issue mustly the gauge flopping around.
your mech , doesnt have a OBD2 scan tool?
which can tell you the coolant temperature in real time?
( 5 mins work)
some cars, this era, have 2 therm sensor 1st for ECU, 2nd for gauge
I believe yours is 2 sensors. (my prints confirm this)
One sensor is ECU other is gauge, lets ignore the guage, its role is not important to operation.
(some countries and cars this year,are different ! where are you?what country)
On many 96' Kicks , you have 2 sensors
ECU connects to the sensor mounted to the rightside
of the Thermostat housing.
You mech, should have a IR thermo gun that he simply measures the coolant out let housing and can tell you the temperature.
He would then compare the IR gun to the OBD2 reading life
and be able to make a diagnosis.
if readings on either are wrong (guage and OBD2 sensor) then
STAT was put in up side down or the air was not properly burped out of the engine block.
A simple $2 ohm meter can test the sensor, in place at cold and hot. The FSM tells this mech, how to do all that I said.
I think, there is air in your system.
based on crazy guage and it didnt do it before.
Keep in mind that the ECU temperature sensor is very important.
And your engine must come up to full temperature 190 F, +- tad
The heater works fine. I mean when I am heading down 294 in chicago, the temperature gauze drops down to C after 50 miles per hour. then, the heater blows out air which is not that hot. but not super cold as well. keep in mind that the engine is pretty cold. Now i don't believe it's electrical with just the gauze acting up. it's something internal.
also, let me know if the OEM dealer thermostat will be any different from the aftermarket that the mechnic installed for me.
thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtgh
96 sport 1.8Liter ?
does your heater work?, You didnt say, very important !
or is your issue mustly the gauge flopping around.
your mech , doesnt have a OBD2 scan tool?
which can tell you the coolant temperature in real time?
( 5 mins work)
some cars, this era, have 2 therm sensor 1st for ECU, 2nd for gauge
I believe yours is 2 sensors. (my prints confirm this)
One sensor is ECU other is gauge, lets ignore the guage, its role is not important to operation.
(some countries and cars this year,are different ! where are you?what country)
On many 96' Kicks , you have 2 sensors
ECU connects to the sensor mounted to the rightside
of the Thermostat housing.
You mech, should have a IR thermo gun that he simply measures the coolant out let housing and can tell you the temperature.
He would then compare the IR gun to the OBD2 reading life
and be able to make a diagnosis.
if readings on either are wrong (guage and OBD2 sensor) then
STAT was put in up side down or the air was not properly burped out of the engine block.
A simple $2 ohm meter can test the sensor, in place at cold and hot. The FSM tells this mech, how to do all that I said.
I think, there is air in your system.
based on crazy guage and it didnt do it before.
Keep in mind that the ECU temperature sensor is very important.
And your engine must come up to full temperature 190 F, +- tad
you need a proper stat, 190 or oem origional value, or ECU will be upset. It probably is ok.
you need someone to IR your engine to see what the REAL temp is at.
Aftermarket thermostats are generally not good. I would try blocking the radiator with some cardboard or something to see if that helps. You never said how cold it was. It was around -25C a couple of days ago and it's very hard for the little 1.6L to build and keep heat and generally wont warm up without modifications. The electric fan mod helps this especially during warm up as its not drawing any air past the engine and rad..
If you car is running good, and the MPG is NORMAL,
most likely the Thermostat is not bad.
if the engine is not overheating , you are ok too.
so if the guage is bad , and that is the only real problem
then , you have bad guage, bad gauge sensor, or wiring problem.
THe guage has nothing to do with running the car, it is only a guage.
if you still think your car is RUNNING cool, then test it.
before IR temp guns, we started car with the rad, cap off.
put in a mercury thermomenter and idled engine until we feel hot
water exit thermostate top piece and we felt the top hose.
the temperature would stablize (some fluid might leak out cuz hot water expands) after this happens, we would take its temperature.
192 to 215 ( it a ball park figure)
A good mechince would point the gun and say ,sir your engine is
running normal. He would then say your gauge is broken .
A broken guage fix is independant of the Cooling problem. ( except burping the air out of the loop)
on some newer cars (newer than yours) this is not true ,they are integrated.
I hope I have helped you.
best wishes.
PS: what I am saying is if the ECU and the IR GUN say the car is ok, then the gauge is in fact bad.
The guage has 3 parts. Any of which can be bad.
Have you waited until the engine is cold and pulled the rad cap . if collant is low , then car needs to be burped. (add water, drive , add water drive)
ADD ONLY WHEN COLD or you WILL GET BURNED.
Thanks for the comments everyone, but, I must admit i need to add more viable details for you to get a better picture of my problem.
Basically I live in chicago, usa. It is between 20-30F these days. It can get pretty cold. My problem started when I noticed a small leak underneath the engine and my mechanic told me it was due to bad waterpump leak. He recommended to replace the waterpump and I obliged. After that, I noticed that still there was a leak underneath my engine, took the car back, and he said that my thermostat is connected, it was leaking so he replaced that.
Ever since then, I am having this problem. What is the exact nature of the problem? here it is described fully:
When I start my car in the morning, it generally takes around 5 minutes for the car to warm up, keep in mind its very cold. After the car has fully warmed up, I head to work which is around 30 miles from my home and I have to take the highway. Now, when the car is warmed up, the head needle goes to its proper location. I get heat, without a problem. But, as soon as I hit the highway, going at around 55 milles an hour, my gauge which shows the engine temp, drops down to C, (Cold) rather then being in it's normal position (which is a little close to the middle). Once i get off highway, go into the city, it goes back up to normal position and the heat resumes to function correctly. Now, even on the highway, there is some heat, but, not at the level where it should be because the engine is cold by looking at the gauge. So, to fix it, my mechanic has replaced the thermostat two times, but, still to no avail.
Any suggestions, would be appreciated.
I have ordered the thermostat from the suzuki dealer to be replaced by the stock one, but, now I am getting worried that is it the water pump that's bad? (the new one that my mechanic put in)
leaks aside:
its not the water pump. bad water pumps dont over cool engines.( that is its main purpose, imagine death valley,CA.)
the thermostat opens and closes directly perportional to the heat of the coolant.
it works just like the thermostat in your home,except it is purely mechanical in nature.
your symtoms are (assuming it really does get colder , with no IR gun , difficult to prove)
is indictive of , sticking thermostat. sticking open.
Some factory Stats are far superiour to NON-OEM, in that they have a feature for fast warmup (multi-staging , Kicks? I dont know). ( slow to open feature)
The quandry is :
you do have to 2 Temperature sensors in your car.
the question is, DO THEY AGREE.
the one for the engine and the one for the Guage. 2 of them.
Have you tried Recirc on the Heater in the car to make it easier to warm up cab?
Three paths:
shot gun it. (new stat)
measure it with an IR gun ( find truth) [ cant do at freeway speed]
Compare guages with OBD2 Scan tool reading of what ECU sees (sensor 2)
(can be done at speed but thats to people ]
another solution that I have done in the past is to buy an remote thermomenter and
watch it in the cab. I have this nice Thermistor probe I use, that most mech should have , I clamp it to the water outlet and drive and look.
but with OBD2 , I dont need it. ITS there Already.
so we have 4 troubleshooting methods.
there is a 5 th but that is an expensive datalogger device, it takes measurements with a
thermistor and logs it to a tiny black box with Flash memory.
I go home and download the whole day of data.
For the more difficult cars and trucks, one needs all these tools to fix them all.
shot gun is cheap as stat is only 1/2 work.
if its still bad, we MUST use Troubleshooting tools.
There is nothing wrong with your JLX. I had the same problem with mine after I installed a new head gasket. These 1.8 engines are a little different than the 1.6, I have had both. You need to take your thermostat out and find the small hole on the outter flange of the tharmostat, used to by-pass. That hole needs to be at 12 o clock position. There is a little arrow on the thermostat cover that the hole needs to be aligned with. Mine was doing the exact same thing in 95 F weather. When I corrected the thermostat ( which the Chiltons tells how it should be installed) The problem went away, and the heater is the best I have ever had in any car!
You still need to fix the water leak, Good Luck
John
not burped, air remaining in the top portions of system
it wasnt burped.
you have air in the top section.
here are the actual words. see attachement.
all good mechs, check this when done. so.....
the procedure is to check the collant level of the radiator with the car parked or raised in the front.
check it cold , if you keep adding fluid to the RAD if it is low,
then the air is not completly removed.
Solutions (all)
you can either re-install the stat correctly
or you can use the asprin trick (put it under stat poppet lip) [ask]
or you can just slowly work the air out following the procedure in many other publications or FSMs.
On a Jeep Cherokee FSM shows raising the car 4 feet in front.
Getting the air out is problematic on many cars, the bleed hole is small and
even that tiny hole , it is a pain to get out all the air.
Any mech , will know this and take the proper steps. (SOP)
ON many cars, I have filled the block via the STAT hole up to the lip
then put in the STAT and then the hose. (staging it up so I dont have problems or waste time) there are more than oneway to skin a cat.
Sorry Garfield.
the Wax Pellet goes to the block side. ( to the flow source)
the bleed hole aligns with the match mark on 1.8 Liter engine.
Burp it and test it, and report.
If you are not hands on person?,
tell mech, burp it.
or tell him to burp it and if it is burped then fix the gauge.
show him this attachment. print it out.
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96 Suzuki Sport JLX
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